Kodiak .58x.58 Regulation

[Harry Collins]

I purchased the Kodiak .58x.58 from Trail Guns Armory in League City Texas some 40 years ago. Col. Mike Powasnick had taken his Kodiak to Africa and proved it on Cape Buffalo. He shot 665 and 700 grain R.E.A.L. bullets. I ordered some from him and BINGO! Regulation! Double rifles bullets will cross line of sight if they are too light or too fast. Bullets will shoot apart i.e. away from line of sight if they are too heavy or too slow. The 500 grain bullets from the mold I ordered with the gun were crossing line of sight. The 665 and 700 grain bullets shot apart with 80 grains of FF. Increasing the charge gradually to 110 grains of FF the Kodiak was shooting side by side with an inch between them at 25 yards using one rear sight. At 100 yards I was getting four shot four inch groups using a vernier tang sight. I took each of those weight bullets to the 2022 Shot Show. The Pedersoli exhibit was wonderful, but sadly Davide Pedersoli was not there nor was a representative from Italy. I would bet a hand full of quarters the bullets came from Pedersoli as they were packaged in styrofoam just like their other bullets. If enough of us asked, perhaps Pedersoli would market the 665 and 700 grain bullets. As a side note, I have the Kodiak IV in 45-70. All of the off the shelve 1873 Springfield 45-70 safe ammo was shooting apart. WW Hull, CCI 200 primer, Speer 300 grain bullet, and 61 grains of IMR 3031 gave a 2 1/2" group at 100 yards. the second shot from the left barrel and both shots from the right barrel were within an inch.

 

[BillinOregon]

Harry, congratulations on solving the .58 Kodiak mystery. I miss mine!

 

[M. De Land]

I purchased the Kodiak .58x.58 from Trail Guns Armory in League City Texas some 40 years ago. Col. Mike Powasnick had taken his Kodiak to Africa and proved it on Cape Buffalo. He shot 665 and 700 grain R.E.A.L. bullets. I ordered some from him and BINGO! Regulation! Double rifles bullets will cross line of sight if they are too light or too fast. Bullets will shoot apart i.e. away from line of sight if they are too heavy or too slow. The 500 grain bullets from the mold I ordered with the gun were crossing line of sight. The 665 and 700 grain bullets shot apart with 80 grains of FF. Increasing the charge gradually to 110 grains of FF the Kodiak was shooting side by side with an inch between them at 25 yards using one rear sight. At 100 yards I was getting four shot four inch groups using a vernier tang sight. I took each of those weight bullets to the 2022 Shot Show. The Pedersoli exhibit was wonderful, but sadly Davide Pedersoli was not there nor was a representative from Italy. I would bet a hand full of quarters the bullets came from Pedersoli as they were packaged in styrofoam just like their other bullets. If enough of us asked, perhaps Pedersoli would market the 665 and 700 grain bullets. As a side note, I have the Kodiak IV in 45-70. All of the off the shelve 1873 Springfield 45-70 safe ammo was shooting apart. WW Hull, CCI 200 primer, Speer 300 grain bullet, and 61 grains of IMR 3031 gave a 2 1/2" group at 100 yards. the second shot from the left barrel and both shots from the right barrel were within an inch.

I'm trying to learn about double barrel regulation and found your post very interesting. Question, if both barrels are regulated to a give point down range with a specific load do they not cross at some point farther down range and then shoot apart?

 

[BillinOregon]

Mssr. DeLand, I cannot speak for our new member Harry, but virtually all double rifles are regulated to converge at a particular and hopefully useful range and then must diverge beyond.

 

[Harry Collins]

Many of the double rifles of 100+ years ago had one standing and two folding leaf sights. Often 50 yards standing, 100, and 200 hundred folding. My guess is they were still shooting accurately enough at these distances. Personally, I don't like shooting much beyond 100 yards with iron sights in the deceitful light of dawn and dusk nor in broad daylight.

 

[Henry Miles]

If the regulation were exact, both bullets would remain a constant 1" apart from 0 yards to wherever they dropped out. The sights should only affect elevation and not windage on a double rifle. You're dealing with less than a 1in square line of sight/bullet path picture from the muzzle. The change should only occur vertically, with both bullets continuing to travel 1in apart the entire flight. In a perfect world...

 

[M. De Land]

If the regulation were exact, both bullets would remain a constant 1" apart from 0 yards to wherever they dropped out. The sights should only affect elevation and not windage on a double rifle. You're dealing with less than a 1in square line of sight/bullet path picture from the muzzle. The change should only occur vertically, with both bullets continuing to travel 1in apart the entire flight. In a perfect world...

I would think they would need to be regulated to each other in the vertical as well when only one set of sights is used. Is it even possible to make them shoot parallel to each other at one inch divergence all the way out?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Many of the double rifles of 100+ years ago had one standing and two folding leaf sights. Often 50 yards standing, 100, and 200 hundred folding. My guess is they were still shooting accurately enough at these distances. Personally, I don't like shooting much beyond 100 yards with iron sights in the deceitful light of dawn and dusk nor in broad daylight.

I found it amusing when reading The Sporting Rifle and Its Projectiles by James Forsyth, c. 1867... that while he used very large caliber rifles and wanted them to be accurate out to 200 yards without adjustable sights... he also wrote that the vast majority of his shots had always been at 100 yards or less, whether it was a game animal for the pot or dangerous Big Game, and he supposed that while his shooting was done in India, that the distance was the same for sportsmen in other forested areas of the world, too.

LD

 

[Henry Miles]

You're generally not talking about shooting sub-moa groups with a double rifle. If you measure the distance from bore to bore and bore to centerline of sight height, you have less than one inch difference. If both barrels retain the center to center bore measurement out to 200yds and beyond, the only adjustment needed is elevation and you would never be more than one inch off in point of impact. These guns are for real world hunting scenarios not bench rest target shooting. A gun that shoots to the same bore to bore distance at 200 yds is target grade accurate. If one barrel shoots higher than the other, adjustment should be made in barrel alignment

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Years and years ago, a Kodiak rifle came through the store used in .50 caliber. Regulation with round balls was abysmal. I decided not to buy it. Since then I am reconsidering, though thinking about a .54 or maybe a .58 instead. Dunno how I could justify the need for it nor do I have any idea what I would use it for other than to shoot gallon jugs in the back yard, but I'm thinking it would be fun.

 

[SOLANCO]

If the regulation were exact, both bullets would remain a constant 1" apart from 0 yards to wherever they dropped out. The sights should only affect elevation and not windage on a double rifle. You're dealing with less than a 1in square line of sight/bullet path picture from the muzzle. The change should only occur vertically, with both bullets continuing to travel 1in apart the entire flight. In a perfect world...

The point of regulation is that a bullet from either barrel will hit the same point at a specific distance with a specific load. The experience and practice of the shooter must enable him to properly estimate range and know where to hold for ranges other than that which the rifle is regulated for.
It would be cheap, shoddy and unethical for the maker not to regulate the rifle. And the load and range specifics should be provided by the maker with the rifle. A British or Continental maker of "best" guns would regulate a rifle to the customer's specs.

 

[R Ellis]

Double Rifles are regulated to be shot from the shoulder standing not the bench as the gun recoils each barrel will push a little right or left but not so much from bench shooting on a rest . It is best to shoot from a standing position to check accuracy from firing both barrels for groups

 

[SOLANCO]

Double rifles were made for hunting. When game presents you may be shooting from a standing position. Or off one knee. Or resting the rifle on some stationary object. Or from a howdah or even a tree stand. Or Lord knows how many other permutations.
The regulation of the barrels is not dependent on the shooters stance. It is incumbent on the shooter to know his rifle, its regulation, and how the bullets will impact at all useful ranges. Recoil moving the gun is unpredictable and can scarcely be allowed for in building and regulating the rifle. If recoil moves your gun it may or may not affect POI, depending on whether the bullet has left the muzzle before the gun is moved.