Kit building inlets

[1BadDart]

I bought a pre inletted stock and hardware kit from Pecatonica. For the most part all the inletting was small and required a little final fitting, which is fine with me. The barrel channel was really deep on the breech end and required epoxy (I was going to do anyway) to raise it up to align with the lock.

There are variances in the same brands of hardware too. I bought two large Siler locks, one flint and the other percussion. The percussion's side plate is larger than the flint, so the folks that are inletting these stocks have that to deal with that too.

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

Hi everyone, I have finally purchased a kit parts set from one of the most reputable kit and lock suppliers. I am nearly done with the mechanical assembly and I am truely enjoying the process of learning and building. I just wanted to vent a bit about the pre-inletting on these carved stocks. These "kits" are a substantial investment, and I am surprised at the number of oversized inlet defects on the stocks. They aren't readily noticable when you just unbox the new kit, but are found along the way. This seems to be a common complaint across the board with the exception of one supplier who uses CNC equipment.

Jim Chamber's kits mention that they are inlet smaller to allow for the problems that you have!

 

[Vaino]

I've assembled 2 Chambers' Early Lancasters and the inlets for the 3 RR pipes were very sloppy.......overruns at each end of the 2 forward pipes and 1 end of the entry pipe bbl inlet. Outside of the above inlets, found very few serious errors. All in all....the 2 part sets were enjoyable to assemble. Chambers should have not done the RR inlets.....the time it took to repair, I could have done the inlets correctly. I did these parts sets early on and learned a lot because all of my later builds were from blanks.....Fred

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
A high school aged young man came into my shop with a Pedersoli Brown Bess kit. He wanted my help with some final finishing details. He went away realizing he was no where near finished. His goal is to have as historically accurate a musket as he can because he is a very active Rev War reenactor. Anyway, there were some real issues with the machine inlet stock. First, the trigger plate was inlet so deep that the front end of the trigger guard bow was suspended above the plate about 1/8". The guard needs to be inlet that much deeper to rest on the plate. That is just as well because the bottom of the stock through the lock area is way too domed and rounded. The bottom of a real Bess through the lock area is slightly curved and almost flat with not very much wood left below the lock plate. The lock panels were way too wide and the pattern 1769 did not have big beaver tails. The lock inlet was a bit sloppy but the gaps will disappear when we stain and finish the stock. The apron around the barrel tang was a misshapen lump of wood way too high. However, the big issues are the ramrod pipes. The machine inlets are oversized and the bottoms are routed flat! I could not believe it! The round bottoms of the pipes rest against a flat bottom and only the retaining pins hold the pipes in place. They wobble side to side when installed. So I told my young friend that we have 2 options. I can bed all the pipes in AcraGlas as is and it would not be very noticeable. However, because he wants a gun as historically accurate as he can, I recommended we cut the ramrod groove a bit deeper. The ramrod will arc very slightly when placed in the stock. Also, deepening the groove will bring the tip of the rod closer to the muzzle cap. Right now it hangs down much lower than the cap. Then we inlet all the pipes deeper and properly. We may still need a little bedding but it won't show. Then we will fill all the pin holes and drill them again after the pipes are inlet deeper. I sent him home with a "to do" list, and lent him one of my Liogier rasps and copy of Goldstein and Mowbray. He will remove wood all over the stock and then bring it back to my shop for the difficult and detailed stuff. I checked online, these kits sell for almost $1100.

dave

 

[doubleset]

This is an interesting thread to me. I am not (well, have not been) a kit builder, but have recently encountered the same sort of frustration in getting the lock on my Traditions Crockett Rifle to work reliably and safely while being able to remove and replace it for cleaning purposes. The problem is that the "inletting" is pretty much just a big hole with a thin edge of support for the lock around the edge -- but in fact only in some places around the edge!

This makes it virtually impossible to remove and replace the lock in the same position -- and in a position that doesn't invite failure of the half cock or accidental falling of the hammer from full cock. Because of the lack of support left for the lock, tightening the two lock screws when assembling the rifle will cant the lock and result in unpredictable functioning of the lock and trigger. Traditions attempted to correct some of the trigger alignment issues by employing small wood screws as shims in several places (classy!) -- and I had to add another! I finally just had to add yet another such screw shim to support the lock adjacent to the rear mounting screw through the stock. It works now and is safe and reliable. But this was all caused by taking way too much wood out of the lock area to start. Nobody can see this mess because it's all concealed, but ... really!?

As any woodworker knows, while it's always possible to remove wood that's there, putting back wood that's been removed is really difficult -- even with the good epoxies we have today. For a while, I thought of filling the entire trigger assembly and lock void with epoxy and starting over. But then I thought I'd just take the easy way and make it work. Love the gun, but not the inletting atrocities on it.

I've been thinking I should have got the kit because I wouldn't have made the mistake of taking out too much wood. But from what you guys are reporting about the more expensive kits, that might not have gained me anything.

 

[The Appalachian]

Doubleset, that was exactly the issue with the kit I'm building, the lock area and very little support for the lock. The only choice I felt I had was to mill the area clean within the boundaries of the lock plate. Make another piece of maple to snap fit in with tight tolerances, epoxy it solid, and recut the lock mortise. You can't even tell I did it now, and I'm totally confident in my work, but it's a shame I had to go there after spending the money i did on the kit.

 

[doubleset]

Appalachian: Well, that's pretty much the right way to do it. I think that if I ever decide to "improve" the situation on this Traditions stock (probably not -- it works), I will be very tempted to just toss the stock and make one from a blank or partially formed blank. The whole inletting result is really crude and looks like a three year old kid was turned loose with a router and a bunch of #8 screws.

 

[Scota@4570]

A couple of things if you are going to mess with precarves. First, you cut on it you own it. Assess it carefully before you start. Second, never get the lock pre inlet. Honestly as previously pointed out I'd much rather work from a square blank. IF the barrel and ramrod were done right on a square balnk, for me that would be nice. But really, I inlet barrels on a milling machine. Ramrod holes are intimidating but I have never has one go wrong. Neither job is a problem.

I once ordered a part set from a famous name. It was expensive. The first stock was obviously junk. The second one took about 10 hours of work to determine it was junk too. IN the process I ruined the lock plate and hammer. I got a new lock and started again with a slab of wood. The rifle came out great and there was no frustration of someone else's mistakes. In the end, I got a very historically accurate rifle with no flaws.

I suspect that some of the guys who make precarves can not make a quality rifle themselves.

 

[Pilgrim]

I'm looking forward to the time I have enough experience to attempt in letting a lock.

 

[billraby]

I'm looking forward to the time I have enough experience to attempt in letting a lock.

The only way to get experience is to attempt inletting a lock. Get a maple board from Home Depot and start inletting. It works for the barrel too. Experience and skill comes from practice.

 

[Scota@4570]

That is a good idea Bill.

Inletting a lock is not a big deal. It is intimating. Hogging out wood is lazy and makes an ugly job. Disassemble the lock. Inlet the plate, use magic marker, go slow. Mark the screw holes. Drill down the correct depth and diameter for each screw. Then add back one part at a time and inlet for each part.

 

[doubleset]

I'm looking forward to the time I have enough experience to attempt in letting a lock.

Apparently, if the commercially inletted stocks are any measure of excellence ... you already do!

 

[doubleset]

Disassemble the lock. Inlet the plate, use magic marker, go slow. Mark the screw holes. Drill down the correct depth and diameter for each screw. Then add back one part at a time and inlet for each part.

Sounds so simple -- and it is. But maybe not quite as simple as "Put a pretty big bit in your router or power chisel and create a big void you're pretty sure all the lock parts will go into with room to spare. Try -- but not too much effort here -- to leave some sort of rim in the hole to seat the lock plate on."

 

[Scota@4570]

Some of the pre carve makers seem to do exactly that. They also put the lock inlet in the wrong place. Thus you get a useless stock.

 

[waksupi]

They should just leave the lock area blank, so you can actually fit a lock as it should be.
Something I ran into putting together guns for people, is that wood that would be considered dry back east, needs a lot of drying time when shipped to the arid west. Lots of shrinkage, and you get to learn all about hiding gaps. I never use epoxy, always wood. Another real treat you can get as the stocks are drying out, they can develop some pretty serious on-cast or off-cast.
My fowler ended up with over an inch off cast, which happened to fit me well. It had me puzzled during the build, I had left the inlet trigger guard in place but not pinned. When I returned to the shop in the morning, the trigger guard was on the floor. It took some head scratching to figure out what was going on.
I went to building from blanks, and had a lot better luck.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I can't help myself, I have to post my last precarve from hell pictures. When I say last precarve I mean it will be the last I ever buy.

The lock inlet was a little off.

I dropped the barrel as far as I could but still had to fill in the inlet with new wood.

I was able to hide the patch well enough, the lock mortise below the lock plate is all new wood, I put the glue line on the bottom edge so it is recessed into the belly of the mortise. The patch was plain maple so I drew in some curl with leather dye.

 

[Pilgrim]

The only way to get experience is to attempt inletting a lock. Get a maple board from Home Depot and start inletting. It works for the barrel too. Experience and skill comes from practice.

Thank you, a great idea.