Kiblers?

[Smokey Plainsman]

Lot of talk on the Kibler kits. How hard are they? I read they're easier than some, but how much so? I'm a dummy at kits. But the price is tempting. Cost about as much as a Pedersoli but far better looking and more historically accurate. Would be a Southern Mountain .40 cal rifle if I end up getting one.

 

[Don Steele]

Two fellows that I shoot with regularly each bought the SMR Kibler kit. One of these guys is a relatively experienced builder. He took his time with it and knew what he was doing when it came to finishes on the wood and barrel. He added a couple of custom features to his and wound up with a gorgeous rifle that shoots like a laser, but doesn't fit him very well, so he sold it to someone just getting into muzzleloader shooting.
The other guy had never built anything. Didn't know much, if anything about metal or wood finishing. He was able to put the kit together, albeit with a couple of "oops" along the way and ALSO end up with a rifle that shoots like a laser, but instead of looking like a "Showpiece", his looks more like an authentic, well used Mountain rifle that someone found in Great-grandpa's attic and he's enjoying the heck out of it.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Jim Kiblers kits are a step above everything else out there including any of the "semi-custom" makers. In fact, they are a league above everything else with respect to fit right out of the box. Jim is using CNC assisted machining to make the stocks such that everything is almost a snap fit. All the components are of best quality, holes are drilled, dovetails in the barrel cut. As an experienced builder, I could assemble one in a day. Of course the finish would take longer to complete. On his southern mountain rifle the barrel is a 46" Rice "A" weight swamped barrel and the lock is a Chambers late Ketland, which is the best commercially produced lock made today. On his new Colonial rifle kit, the barrels are Rice "B" weight swamped barrels and the lock is Chambers round-faced Virginia fowler. All of the hardware was designed by Jim and made to his specs. Again, there are no other kit guns out there in the same league. Search YouTube for "Kibler colonial rifle kit" and view the series of videos he published showing building his colonial rifle kit. The process will be the same for the mountain rifle.

dave

 

[apachesx2]

I look at the Kibler kits but it's got a very short length of pull 13 5/8 for the Colonial and 13 3/4s for the Southern Mountain Rifle even the generic T/C Hawken has 14 1/2. I am 6'3" and have a 15 1/2 length of pull although I got 15 inch length of pull to compensate for heavy hunting jackets from Tennessee Valley Muzzleloaders. TVM come with Chamber's Locks too. But not paying a $1000 plus for a rifle that doesn't fit.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I put together one of the early kits. I found that all the inletting was cut just a little undersized and it took some inletting skills (which I have) to assemble the kit. I understand the kits are much more refined now.

I have gun builder friend who put one of the newer kits together a couple of weeks ago. Taking his time and doing very precise work he had the kit in the white in 11 hours.

As a bow building instructor I have come to realize that most of the John Q Public types are completely devoid of any creative skills. I wouldn't recommend this kit to someone who had never done any constructive shop work or has never used a rasp or a chisel.

If anyone out there had done something as simple as assemble a CVA or TC kit they can handle a Kibler kit if they take their time and watch Jim's assembly videos on youtube.

But, when you get done you have something special.

 

[Artificer]

I look at the Kibler kits but it's got a very short length of pull 13 5/8 for the Colonial and 13 3/4s for the Southern Mountain Rifle even the generic T/C Hawken has 14 1/2. I am 6'3" and have a 15 1/2 length of pull although I got 15 inch length of pull to compensate for heavy hunting jackets from Tennessee Valley Muzzleloaders. TVM come with Chamber's Locks too. But not paying a $1000 plus for a rifle that doesn't fit.

I found the posts by Don Steele and apachesx2 very interesting as no matter how good/correct/easy to build a kit is - if the rifle stock doesn't fit the person "well enough," then they won't like shooting the rifle or won't be able to shoot it well.

FWIW most modern guns have a LOP of between 13 1/4 inch to 13 3/4 inch, so the Kibler kit at 13 5/8 inch is right in there.

I have "Orangutan" length arms that would seem to require a very long LOP, but with my astigmatism, I really have to "crawl up" on a "generic length of pull" stock to see the sights well. However, it seems to me that "generic" LOP measurements go out the window with Muzzle Loading guns?

I was very happy when I got to try the feel of Jim Chambers "English Gentleman's Sporting Rifle" with a 13 1/2 inch LOP and found it was just a tiny bit on the short side for me; but still very comfortable to shoulder, point and sight.

So what I am getting at in this very roundabout post is, are there places Jim Kibler's assembled kit rifles can be shouldered/tried out for feel besides at Jim Kibler's shop?

OR...”¦

Does Jim Kibler offer any of his kits with the option to have an over long LOP and not have the butt plate inletted? Though this would make the kit much harder to finish, because inletting a butt plate is not real easy, this would give the ability to vary the LOP.

Gus

 

[Paul Herbst]

I believe the Kibler kits are outstanding. I built one in June as the first flintlock rifle I have ever shot. If you can use basic hand tools you will be fine. If you are an accomplished woodworker you can realize some fantastic results. Mine is plain but satisfying to my needs.

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[Griz44Mag]

VERY NICE!
This is more along my tastes. Not flashy, but fit and finished. That's a beautiful rifle...

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Guys the word's in on them Kiblers:

Good!

Sounds good, gang. I REALLY like the Southern Mountain. Was about to go with a TVM but with the 8 month wait time and considerably higher cost, I don't know.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
There is no comparison. TVM's southern mountain rifles appear to be their Lancaster stocks with iron hardware. They are not in the same league as Kibler but they cost about the same.

dave

 

[azmntman]

Two fellows that I shoot with regularly each bought the SMR Kibler kit. One of these guys is a relatively experienced builder. He took his time with it and knew what he was doing when it came to finishes on the wood and barrel. He added a couple of custom features to his and wound up with a gorgeous rifle that shoots like a laser, but doesn't fit him very well, so he sold it to someone just getting into muzzleloader shooting.
The other guy had never built anything. Didn't know much, if anything about metal or wood finishing. He was able to put the kit together, albeit with a couple of "oops" along the way and ALSO end up with a rifle that shoots like a laser, but instead of looking like a "Showpiece", his looks more like an authentic, well used Mountain rifle that someone found in Great-grandpa's attic and he's enjoying the heck out of it.

I'd say the second guy came out ahead. Cant go wrong with a well made old looking muzzle loader IMHO!

 

[azmntman]

VERY NICE!
This is more along my tastes. Not flashy, but fit and finished. That's a beautiful rifle...

:metoo: But per the above I'd likely bang it up by the end of the first day of the hunt :shocked2: :rotf:

 

[azmntman]

I wouldn't recommend this kit to someone who had never done any constructive shop work or has never used a rasp or a chisel.

A Rasp :shocked2: ? I thought his kits were in the white? Or is there an option for a kit or in the white?

NICE rifle Eric

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Jim Kiblers kits are a step above everything else out there including any of the "semi-custom" makers. In fact, they are a league above everything else with respect to fit right out of the box.

If Mr. Person's judgement is the above..., I don't think you'd need much more of a testimonial on the kits.

The only reason why I don't have one right now, is that I'm simply saving up for one. Mine will be a Colonial American Long Rifle

LD

 

[dave_person]

Hi David,
Thanks for that endorsement although it embarrasses me a little because everyone has opinions that should be considered. Regardless, thank you Dave. I am not a fan of building plain rifles. For me, it is like building a flower bed, mixing in the compost, digging the holes, but never planting the flowers. Mostly work and only a little of the fun stuff. Anyway, since southern mountain rifles are almost always pretty plain, if I wanted a gun of that style, I would build Jim Kibler's kit. I would end up with a gun absolutely correct in architecture, very finely made, and all that with very little grunt work. I have examined Jim's kits very closely and compared them with some of the best other kits such as Jim Chambers. I conclude that Kibler is in a league of his own at this time. Others may eventually follow Jim's lead.

dave

 

[Eric Krewson]

You don't need to do any rasping on a Kibler kit. I did use a rasp when I extended the wrist into the butt more and narrowed the comb. Completely unnecessary but I like to tinker with stuff.

I should have been more clear in my statement and said something like "if you have never worked wood with a chisel or file or don't own either I wouldn't recommend this kit".

 

[Rifleman1776]

Others may eventually follow Jim's lead.

Good post Dave. And this has been a good thread. What you said, I believe, is prophetic. With the growing popularity of CNC, we may soon see many 'kits' on the market that require minimal skills to complete. And, that could lead to competition and lower prices. This all, I'm hopeful, could give a resurgance to the ml game not unlike the introduction of the TC 'hawken' in the early 1970s.

 

[Bon Sauvage]

I would love to have a Kibler kit in 40 calibre but I too feel I need a 15" - 15 1/2" LOP.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Frank,
The process of upgrading is already underway. Near the end of this year, Chris Laubach will be offering his first lock that is completely CNC machined. Every part is machined from steel, no castings, and all springs are forged. Chris showed me his first production and the lock is incredible. Basically, you will not need to do any polishing or tuning. The lock is perfect right out of the box and is of the quality you might expect from Bob Roller. They will be selling for $290 and worth every penny. His first offering is a Germanic lock similar to that on the Edward Marshall rifle. He will quickly expand his line. I've offered Chris one of my original English fowler locks and he may use it. Because of this, Jim Chambers is altering his production to include some CNC machining. I believe he will be machining the internal parts but keeping cast lock plates, frizzens, and flint cocks.

dave

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Saw Kibker's videos.

Seems like all you really need to do is clean up the holes and put in the parts. Seems easy.