Kibler SMR vs Colonial

[vezePilot]

In anticipation, about 6 months prior to purchase of the Colonial Rifle I ...
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You waited 6 months after deciding? I'm having trouble waiting six weeks!

 

[Art Caputo]

You waited 6 months after deciding? I'm having trouble waiting six weeks!

I started practicing in advance if ordering. I received my rifle about 4 weeks after ordering it.

 

[jlutz]

Like other kit makers (barrel billed separately, etc.) I think this is mainly done to avoid legal problems.

I just asked Katherine at Kibler about that this week. She said that even though the locks are made in house now, they do bill them separately for reasons having to do with Federal Excise Tax laws.

 

[longcruise]

It's the 11% Pittman Robertson, I think??

 

[EC121]

If they don't sell all the parts together, it isn't a complete set of rifle parts, and the tax is avoided. So they bill the lock separately.

 

[troy2000]

I too want to learn a bit about rifle building, but that is why I shied away from the Jim Kibler sets. They aren't really kit's, they are more guns ready in-the-white. Just finish and shoot. Just something to consider.

As for style, I already had the time period I found most interesting. I simply chose a style that more or less would fit in that time period.

Jim's kits are good, but they aren't quite a rifle in the white. One of them will still keep you busy for a while shaping inlets in the wood, filing and sanding metal, draw filing barrel flats, drilling holes for the barrel and ramrod pipe pins, etc., unless you're an experienced builder.

Except for the cost, I'd highly recommend them to a first-time builder - and his prices are actually pretty much in line with other quality kit suppliers. Doing one will give you practice in basic techniques, and a clearer idea of your own capabilities. From what I've gathered, there are an appalling number of unfinished rifle kits out there that people over the years started, became discouraged and frustrated with, and laid aside for another day.

Of course, now we have the internet, and that makes all the difference in the world. You can watch the experts and learn... For example, Jim has a series of very informative videos that walk you step by step through building each of his two kits. I suggest you watch them. You'll learn a lot before you ever get hands-on, and maybe it'll give you an opportunity to assess whether you're ready for something more challenging right off the bat.

 

[megasupermagnum]

Jim's kits are good, but they aren't quite a rifle in the white. One of them will still keep you busy for a while shaping inlets in the wood, filing and sanding metal, draw filing barrel flats, drilling holes for the barrel and ramrod pipe pins, etc., unless you're an experienced builder.

Except for the cost, I'd highly recommend them to a first-time builder - and his prices are actually pretty much in line with other quality kit suppliers. Doing one will give you practice in basic techniques, and a clearer idea of your own capabilities. From what I've gathered, there are an appalling number of unfinished rifle kits out there that people over the years started, became discouraged and frustrated with, and laid aside for another day.

Of course, now we have the internet, and that makes all the difference in the world. You can watch the experts and learn... For example, Jim has a series of very informative videos that walk you step by step through building each of his two kits. I suggest you watch them. You'll learn a lot before you ever get hands-on, and maybe it'll give you an opportunity to assess whether you're ready for something more challenging right off the bat.

Sure, you have a finish a few holes. From watching his series, most of the holes are started in the stock, and you transfer them to the other parts. It seemed to me that they went together without touching the inlets. I could be wrong, I never owned one. Everything else you mention is finishing, AKA gun in the white. According to his new videos, his new barrels might not even need any more finishing.

I don't mean to be argumentative, they are a great way to go if the two, soon to be three kits he offers are what you are looking for. From what I saw, anyone who can operate a hand drill, sandpaper, and some finish can have a completed Kibler kit. I was looking for something that would allow me to practice inletting, fitting, shaping the stock, etc., and it sounds like jlutz may as well.

 

[tenngun]

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts. It’s been very informative!

I can see the Kibler SMR rifle is based on an example from the 1820s. I’ve done a bit reading online regarding similar rifles but it seems there is not a clear agreement on when such rifles originated in the States. I thought I’d defer to those with more knowledge and ask: for the Kibler SMR, what’s the earliest timeframe that it would be reasonable to use it with were I to put it to use in re-enacting as well as shooting? Thank you!

By 1770s North Carolina was starting to go lots own way in rifle style. However, the narrow butt plate, ‘hand forged’ iron ware is nineteenth century. In flint you could do war of 1812, still usable for trans Mississippi. These were the rifles of early Texas to Minnesota though few would go north of Iowa. So your good with one of these for Santa Fe Trail Known to be used in the Rockies, stayed popular in the southren federal period up to TWBS.

 

[troy2000]

Sure, you have a finish a few holes. From watching his series, most of the holes are started in the stock, and you transfer them to the other parts. It seemed to me that they went together without touching the inlets. I could be wrong, I never owned one. Everything else you mention is finishing, AKA gun in the white. According to his new videos, his new barrels might not even need any more finishing.

I don't mean to be argumentative, they are a great way to go if the two, soon to be three kits he offers are what you are looking for. From what I saw, anyone who can operate a hand drill, sandpaper, and some finish can have a completed Kibler kit. I was looking for something that would allow me to practice inletting, fitting, shaping the stock, etc., and it sounds like jlutz may as well.

You're the best judge of your capabilities. If that's what you want to do and you're handy enough to start at that level, go for it. I've been a woodworker my whole life, and done a little machining and milling too, but I still think starting with Jim's kit was a good introduction for me personally... kind of like the cartoonists and artists who start out by copying someone else's work, before moving up and onward.

Somewhere down the line, I intend to get a lot more involved in building a gun. I actually own a set of drawings taken off an original Harper's Ferry Model 1803 rifle, that are detailed enough to enable someone to build one totally from scratch - including all the cast and machined metal parts. Not even thinking about tackling that one until I retire, though - and if I do try it, I'll still draw the line at making my own screws.

 

[M. De Land]

In anticipation, about 6 months prior to purchase of the Colonial Rifle I decided to try my skills at carving with the observation that, like yourself, most of the early Colonial Rifles had carving. It’s much harder to do then it appears, particularly for someone like myself that has little artistic ability. After dozens of practice samples I felt that I could come very close to the more basic examples I studied. Interestingly, during this process. I found of Colonial rifles(original and contemporary) that had little, if any carving, and found them to be much more appealing to my minimalistic tastes. Whether this aspect, my lack of carving confidence, or both, I ended up leaving my Colonial Rifle un-carved except for the utilitarian thumb notch in the patch box cover. In hind-sight I’m very happy with this decision. The simple elegance and styling is quite captivating, and I suspect my several other rifles will become dust collectors.
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Is it in .40 cal?

 

[tnlonghunter]

I've only done one "kit" before - a Chambers York rifle. I would have gone with a Kibler Colonial on my current order if it had the weight and length I wanted. But that big barrel in a .50 caliber would weigh more than I wanted for what I'm after this time.

That being said, even with a lot of woodworking experience I have some nerves about messing up a nice stock if my inletting and shaping isn't great, and a Kibler really seems a great option if you like the offerings. The only real downside to his level of quality and attention to detail is that it's not reasonable to expect a ton of variety AND that level of quality without several years of development.

I seen a .58 Kibler Colonial sometime down the road, though!

 

[Art Caputo]

Is it in .40 cal?

It is a 58 cal Colonial Rifle.

 

[vezePilot]

I started practicing in advance if ordering. I received my rifle about 4 weeks after ordering it.

This is what I am doing, apparently ... in order to work up to the point of ordering. 'Cuz I've got other things to do before I can start a Kit Build.

I have some scraps of Maple, to try the Iron Nitrate & Tannic Acid on. I have some scrap steel to practice Draw Filing, and Blueing and/or Browning (old hexagonal-section crowbars, actually). And I need to put together the orders for Files, Chisels, and the finishing products.

I have also started a Photoshop document, using a photo of a Kibler Colonial, so I can try different color arrangments. I can compare a Bare Steel Barrel and Lock to Blueing or Browning appearances. And Brighter or more subdued Wood Finish colors. And also Bright Brass versus Patina.

 

[troy2000]

I've only done one "kit" before - a Chambers York rifle. I would have gone with a Kibler Colonial on my current order if it had the weight and length I wanted. But that big barrel in a .50 caliber would weigh more than I wanted for what I'm after this time.

That being said, even with a lot of woodworking experience I have some nerves about messing up a nice stock if my inletting and shaping isn't great, and a Kibler really seems a great option if you like the offerings. The only real downside to his level of quality and attention to detail is that it's not reasonable to expect a ton of variety AND that level of quality without several years of development.

I seen a .58 Kibler Colonial sometime down the road, though!

Even though Southern Mountain rifles weren't usually carved, I'm not fanatically into being historically correct. So
I've seriously considered a second stock in walnut for mine - so I can practice carving, without screwing up my current stock. I'd also be able to switch stocks when I'm planning on camping out for a while, to save my beautiful curly maple from mistreatment.

I should probably get after it sooner than later, because after Jim starts fitting his new barrels he may not have any stocks available for my Rice barrel.