Norman Brooks
45 Cal.
Would like to see how you do the engraving on the barrel, if you don't mind.
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Kibler kit assembly and carving
- Thread starter dave_person
- Start date
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Looks wonderful!
Brokennock
Cannon
Are you trying to send me into withdrawal?
Looking forward to see how the Bone Black is done!!
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Hi Pathfinder,
I'll show how I do it but I am still feeling my way with it. Jim Kibler is the master and he has an excellent video showing how he does it. That said, my first treatment with bone black on this rifle came out great! Best I've done yet. I have to do more do so I'll take some photos.
dave
I'll show how I do it but I am still feeling my way with it. Jim Kibler is the master and he has an excellent video showing how he does it. That said, my first treatment with bone black on this rifle came out great! Best I've done yet. I have to do more do so I'll take some photos.
dave
I am excited to see how yours came out! If you are that pleased it must be awesome looking! For me, I had thought it was too late to try it on my build now since I already applied some BLO yesterday but just watched Jim’s video last night and saw it’s still possible at this stage, so I am going to try it out. Love learning and exploring new things in this adventure.
Nice!
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Hi,
Bone black, OhhhhK. First let me mention that the finish on the rifle is Sutherland-Welles polymerized tung oil medium gloss. I used all kinds of finishes on my guns over 40 years but I prefer polymerized tung oil over all else. The key emphasis is on "polymerized". This is not raw tung oil or Minwax and Formby's tung oil finishes. This is tung oil heat treated to speed up drying and mixed with some solvents. I buy it directly from SW who are in Vermont. On a warm day, it is dry to the touch in 4 hours and ready for the next coat in 12-24 hours depending on heat and humidity. That said, like any finish, if the humidity is high or the temp drops below 65 degrees, it may take a while to dry. I can mimic virtually all vintage finishes with it depending on my objectives and it is has superior weather resistance to anything containing linseed oil, which includes Tru-Oil.
I am no expert on shading gun stocks with bone black. Jim Kibler is and is an artist with it. I am still learning my way and use it tentatively. The idea is to add a black shadow effect that mimics age. I do like the effect but to what extent I simply am not sure. I would never do it unless I also will age the brass, lock, and barrel. But what do I mean by age? I really don't know. Is a little aging like being a little pregnant? You are either pregnant or you are not. Anyway, I do like the look of the bone black and hopefully use it effectively on this gun. You can decide that when I post the final images of the completed gun. I will be tarnishing the brass, lock and barrel to look consistent with the stock. To use bone black on a stock and then polish the brass bright and shiny is not a good idea.
So here is the raw material.
The stock has 2 coats of tung oil thinned 50% with mineral spirits as a sealer. Those coats dried thoroughly in the sun and then I began to add the bone black.
I use bone black pigment supplied by Jim Kibler and a small amount of tung oil finish. I pour a little bone black in one jar lid and a very small quantity of tung oil finish in another.
I use a good quality brush, dampen it with oil and dip it into the bone black. The trick is not to create a black paste in the brush but a fairly dry pigment that brushes on not like paint but more like damp sand. It should create wispy streaks of black not a coating.
I then work the pigment into areas that make the carving pop but also where grime and finish might build up and not get wiped away.
Here I am using it to create a halo around the sun.
Here to highlight carving around the lock.
And highlight carving on the other side.
Then I wipe off the excess with a paper towel where I don't want it and here is the result.
Now that is not the end because the next coat of finish after the black glazing has dried will wipe away some of the black and feather it a bit. You have to be careful that you don't wipe it all off before it is locked in place by successive coats of finish.
dave
Bone black, OhhhhK. First let me mention that the finish on the rifle is Sutherland-Welles polymerized tung oil medium gloss. I used all kinds of finishes on my guns over 40 years but I prefer polymerized tung oil over all else. The key emphasis is on "polymerized". This is not raw tung oil or Minwax and Formby's tung oil finishes. This is tung oil heat treated to speed up drying and mixed with some solvents. I buy it directly from SW who are in Vermont. On a warm day, it is dry to the touch in 4 hours and ready for the next coat in 12-24 hours depending on heat and humidity. That said, like any finish, if the humidity is high or the temp drops below 65 degrees, it may take a while to dry. I can mimic virtually all vintage finishes with it depending on my objectives and it is has superior weather resistance to anything containing linseed oil, which includes Tru-Oil.
I am no expert on shading gun stocks with bone black. Jim Kibler is and is an artist with it. I am still learning my way and use it tentatively. The idea is to add a black shadow effect that mimics age. I do like the effect but to what extent I simply am not sure. I would never do it unless I also will age the brass, lock, and barrel. But what do I mean by age? I really don't know. Is a little aging like being a little pregnant? You are either pregnant or you are not. Anyway, I do like the look of the bone black and hopefully use it effectively on this gun. You can decide that when I post the final images of the completed gun. I will be tarnishing the brass, lock and barrel to look consistent with the stock. To use bone black on a stock and then polish the brass bright and shiny is not a good idea.
So here is the raw material.
The stock has 2 coats of tung oil thinned 50% with mineral spirits as a sealer. Those coats dried thoroughly in the sun and then I began to add the bone black.
I use bone black pigment supplied by Jim Kibler and a small amount of tung oil finish. I pour a little bone black in one jar lid and a very small quantity of tung oil finish in another.
I use a good quality brush, dampen it with oil and dip it into the bone black. The trick is not to create a black paste in the brush but a fairly dry pigment that brushes on not like paint but more like damp sand. It should create wispy streaks of black not a coating.
I then work the pigment into areas that make the carving pop but also where grime and finish might build up and not get wiped away.
Here I am using it to create a halo around the sun.
Here to highlight carving around the lock.
And highlight carving on the other side.
Then I wipe off the excess with a paper towel where I don't want it and here is the result.
Now that is not the end because the next coat of finish after the black glazing has dried will wipe away some of the black and feather it a bit. You have to be careful that you don't wipe it all off before it is locked in place by successive coats of finish.
dave
Well look at that! With your varnish finish over it and blended in I think you hit paydirt with that bit of enhancing. Nice nice.
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Hi,
I promised a post on engraving my name and shop on the barrel. This is not a tutorial on engraving per se because that requires a book. I am not going to discuss sharpening or how to engrave. I am going to discuss some details related to engraving letters that may help you. The first problem is you need letters and their images need to be transferred to the barrel. Script letters are the safest to engrave because the curvy lines can be a bit roughly cut and still look OK. Not so with block or Roman letters. Small block letters are one of the most daunting engraving challenges and more so when on a barrel that cannot be spun to cut smooth curves.
You will never cut good letters free hand without drawing or transferring their image to the barrel. I worked with all kinds of methods from drawing directly on the barrel, using engraving white and drawing on that, to using computer printed letters on transparency film and a lacquer solution to transfer them to the metal. I don't like any of the whiting solutions and prefer running my thumb vigorously over beeswax and then stamping the wax from my thumb on to the metal. With a light coat of beeswax you can draw letters on the barrel with a sharp #2 pencil. However, I struggle to pencil good clean letters even on the beeswax so I use a different method. I use the "word art" function in Microsoft Word to create the text in an appropriately styled font and size. Then I flip the text horizontally so it will be printed in inverse. I print the text using an inkjet printer on a Pictorico transparency film. I usually print batches that I can use at later dates.
With the inverse images on the film, I clean the space to be engraved with acetone and then alcohol, and apply a solution called "Tom White's Transfer Magic". I think it may be a mix of lacquer and acetone. I apply a thin coat on the barrel with a Q-tip, blow moist air over it to frost it a little and let it dry.
Then I place the inked side of the film down on the barrel, tape it in place, and burnish it hard with a metal burnisher. That usually transfers a nice clear image on the metal.
With the image in place, I cut it. When doing block letters, I first cut all the horizontal lines in one direction, go to the other side of the barrel and cut them again in the opposite direction to even them out.
Then I cut all the vertical lines again in both directions. In this example, many verticals lines are double within which horizontal shading lines will be added.
After cutting and cleaning up the horizontal and vertical lines, I cut the curved portions of the letters. This is the hardest task because it is hard to turn the barrel to create smooth curves. You have to move around to create them. With the curves cut, I clean up the letters, thickening lines here, straightening lines there and smoothing curves.
The script letters are easier because although the curves are harder to cut, the script tends to absorb mistakes and rough areas much better than block letters. I transfer the image as before and cut it.
I widen lines by laying the square graver over more on its side to flare out the line. It is fun to do and is forgiving. After cutting the script I cut an asterisk between the names. Then I clean off the transfer solution and paint the letters with black India ink, let dry, and rub off. The ink highlights the letters.
dave
I promised a post on engraving my name and shop on the barrel. This is not a tutorial on engraving per se because that requires a book. I am not going to discuss sharpening or how to engrave. I am going to discuss some details related to engraving letters that may help you. The first problem is you need letters and their images need to be transferred to the barrel. Script letters are the safest to engrave because the curvy lines can be a bit roughly cut and still look OK. Not so with block or Roman letters. Small block letters are one of the most daunting engraving challenges and more so when on a barrel that cannot be spun to cut smooth curves.
You will never cut good letters free hand without drawing or transferring their image to the barrel. I worked with all kinds of methods from drawing directly on the barrel, using engraving white and drawing on that, to using computer printed letters on transparency film and a lacquer solution to transfer them to the metal. I don't like any of the whiting solutions and prefer running my thumb vigorously over beeswax and then stamping the wax from my thumb on to the metal. With a light coat of beeswax you can draw letters on the barrel with a sharp #2 pencil. However, I struggle to pencil good clean letters even on the beeswax so I use a different method. I use the "word art" function in Microsoft Word to create the text in an appropriately styled font and size. Then I flip the text horizontally so it will be printed in inverse. I print the text using an inkjet printer on a Pictorico transparency film. I usually print batches that I can use at later dates.
With the inverse images on the film, I clean the space to be engraved with acetone and then alcohol, and apply a solution called "Tom White's Transfer Magic". I think it may be a mix of lacquer and acetone. I apply a thin coat on the barrel with a Q-tip, blow moist air over it to frost it a little and let it dry.
Then I place the inked side of the film down on the barrel, tape it in place, and burnish it hard with a metal burnisher. That usually transfers a nice clear image on the metal.
With the image in place, I cut it. When doing block letters, I first cut all the horizontal lines in one direction, go to the other side of the barrel and cut them again in the opposite direction to even them out.
Then I cut all the vertical lines again in both directions. In this example, many verticals lines are double within which horizontal shading lines will be added.
After cutting and cleaning up the horizontal and vertical lines, I cut the curved portions of the letters. This is the hardest task because it is hard to turn the barrel to create smooth curves. You have to move around to create them. With the curves cut, I clean up the letters, thickening lines here, straightening lines there and smoothing curves.
The script letters are easier because although the curves are harder to cut, the script tends to absorb mistakes and rough areas much better than block letters. I transfer the image as before and cut it.
I widen lines by laying the square graver over more on its side to flare out the line. It is fun to do and is forgiving. After cutting the script I cut an asterisk between the names. Then I clean off the transfer solution and paint the letters with black India ink, let dry, and rub off. The ink highlights the letters.
dave
Wow- Very classy ! 
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Hi Folks,
I meant to mention something previously and forgot. A common apprehension expressed in posts on the forum is the author is not an artist. Art is really not that mysterious and it can be guided by some easily understood rules and guidelines. Think of the "golden mean" for example or rules of perspective and proportion. On this rifle I applied a guide I often use for some of the wire inlay. Look at the wire attached to the carving in the photos below.
Note that I often use 2 strands, one that tends to conform to the carving, and one that goes its own way. It is kind of a "ying yang" thing, order versus chaos, and it draws your eye. Now look at the wire wrapping around the carving to the rear of the cheek piece. It starts out kind of conforming to the carving by weaving along it and then at the bottom, it disconnects and curls upward and out, opposite the direction of the carving. Again, kind of an order versus chaos thing. Too much order is not emotionally inspiring and too much chaos is incoherent. A nice mix of both is very appealing. That tug of war between order and disorder, and symmetry and asymmetry is one of the secrets to rococo design.
dave
I meant to mention something previously and forgot. A common apprehension expressed in posts on the forum is the author is not an artist. Art is really not that mysterious and it can be guided by some easily understood rules and guidelines. Think of the "golden mean" for example or rules of perspective and proportion. On this rifle I applied a guide I often use for some of the wire inlay. Look at the wire attached to the carving in the photos below.
Note that I often use 2 strands, one that tends to conform to the carving, and one that goes its own way. It is kind of a "ying yang" thing, order versus chaos, and it draws your eye. Now look at the wire wrapping around the carving to the rear of the cheek piece. It starts out kind of conforming to the carving by weaving along it and then at the bottom, it disconnects and curls upward and out, opposite the direction of the carving. Again, kind of an order versus chaos thing. Too much order is not emotionally inspiring and too much chaos is incoherent. A nice mix of both is very appealing. That tug of war between order and disorder, and symmetry and asymmetry is one of the secrets to rococo design.
dave
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Hi,
Well it is done. It took a while to finish because of the high humidity and there was a section of wood on top of the comb that would not stop whiskering. I finally put on a coat of finish and when it dried, I burnished down the wood with an antler tip. That did the job. Then I had another bizarre thing happen. The finish was almost done and I was testing the ramrod fit. I pulled the rod out and on the end was an angry wasp that stung me. I bobbled the stock in my surprise and put some small dents in it. It must have crawled in the ramrod hole looking for a cozy place. Anyway, the dents all steamed out nicely, thankfully. I polished all the brass and tarnished it a little with instant bluing. I did the same with the lock and barrel. I also cut teeth in the jaws of the flint cock. I case hardened the trigger and temper blued it as well as the trigger plate and all the bolt and screw heads that show on the outside. Tapered the ramrod a little and even turned the steel ferrule down to a slightly smaller diameter. I was very concerned that the close fit of the rod would swell in place on any humid day and since this rifle goes to Florida, that is a major consideration. I installed a taller rear sight because the owner is tall and it gives him just a little more drop at heel from the line of sight. The original low sight still fits so the owner can choose either one that suits. I'll let the finish cure for a few more days and the shoot the rifle to test it. After that, pack it up and ship it off. Hope you enjoy the photos.
dave
Well it is done. It took a while to finish because of the high humidity and there was a section of wood on top of the comb that would not stop whiskering. I finally put on a coat of finish and when it dried, I burnished down the wood with an antler tip. That did the job. Then I had another bizarre thing happen. The finish was almost done and I was testing the ramrod fit. I pulled the rod out and on the end was an angry wasp that stung me. I bobbled the stock in my surprise and put some small dents in it. It must have crawled in the ramrod hole looking for a cozy place. Anyway, the dents all steamed out nicely, thankfully. I polished all the brass and tarnished it a little with instant bluing. I did the same with the lock and barrel. I also cut teeth in the jaws of the flint cock. I case hardened the trigger and temper blued it as well as the trigger plate and all the bolt and screw heads that show on the outside. Tapered the ramrod a little and even turned the steel ferrule down to a slightly smaller diameter. I was very concerned that the close fit of the rod would swell in place on any humid day and since this rifle goes to Florida, that is a major consideration. I installed a taller rear sight because the owner is tall and it gives him just a little more drop at heel from the line of sight. The original low sight still fits so the owner can choose either one that suits. I'll let the finish cure for a few more days and the shoot the rifle to test it. After that, pack it up and ship it off. Hope you enjoy the photos.
dave
Beautiful work!Hi,
Well it is done. It took a while to finish because of the high humidity and there was a section of wood on top of the comb that would not stop whiskering. I finally put on a coat of finish and when it dried, I burnished down the wood with an antler tip. That did the job. Then I had another bizarre thing happen. The finish was almost done and I was testing the ramrod fit. I pulled the rod out and on the end was an angry wasp that stung me. I bobbled the stock in my surprise and put some small dents in it. It must have crawled in the ramrod hole looking for a cozy place. Anyway, the dents all steamed out nicely, thankfully. I polished all the brass and tarnished it a little with instant bluing. I did the same with the lock and barrel. I also cut teeth in the jaws of the flint cock. I case hardened the trigger and temper blued it as well as the trigger plate and all the bolt and screw heads that show on the outside. Tapered the ramrod a little and even turned the steel ferrule down to a slightly smaller diameter. I was very concerned that the close fit of the rod would swell in place on any humid day and since this rifle goes to Florida, that is a major consideration. I installed a taller rear sight because the owner is tall and it gives him just a little more drop at heel from the line of sight. The original low sight still fits so the owner can choose either one that suits. I'll let the finish cure for a few more days and the shoot the rifle to test it. After that, pack it up and ship it off. Hope you enjoy the photos.
dave
However, there is one problem I feel compelled to point out - we need bigger pictures.
appalichian hunter
75 Cal.
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Great job, someone is going too be very happy.
Norman Brooks
45 Cal.
Absolutely gorgeous!!! Thank you for all of the info and pictures...
Simply splendid work.
Stunning work, absolutely amazing!
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Hi,
Thank you all for looking and commenting. I appreciate them very much. I want to mention a few points that may help those who choose to build these kits. Make sure you remember to file the pin holes in the barrel lugs into oval slots to allow the stock to move with humidity. Case in point, when I fitted the forward pin a few days ago, the stock had moved so much from a change in humidity that the hole no longer lined up. All the other holes were OK but I still filed them into short slots. The forward lug needed a pretty long oval slot to pass the pin. Make sure you sand the ramrod enough that it does not jam with humidity. The same goes for the patch box lid. If I had left the precise fit that came with the kit, it would long ago have been swelled in place by humidity. File a little extra space in the hole in the breech plug for the rear lock bolt. Make sure the bolt fits through it and rattles a bit in the hole. Having learned this the hard way, a precise fit of that bolt through the plug bolster could result in it acting like a jack hammer against the stock during recoil. A little slop in the hole will prevent that. If you decide to alter the stock as I did, keep in mind that Jim's well and precisely engineered kit is a system such that if you change one thing you are bound to find you need to change several other connected things. I urge folks just starting out to build the gun as Jim designed it with respect to the architecture. By all means add cosmetic flourishes all you want but leave the basic architecture alone unless you know what you are doing. With respect to embellishments, I strongly urge you to do some, even simple ones. In my opinion, the basic stock desperately needs moldings along the ramrod channel, lower butt stock moldings, the end of the cheek piece reduced in size and shaped a bit with perhaps a decorative line or two, some decoration on the patch box lid, and lock and side panel moldings. Just those simple features will enhance the rifle a lot particularly if you choose very monochrome wood like black walnut and cherry. Finally, the finished rifle with its 43.25" 54 caliber barrel weighs 8lbs 12oz. My Star of Bethlehem rifle with its big 41" D weight 62 caliber barrel weighs 9lbs but is better balanced and the weight is barely noticed. This 54 caliber Kibler is a bit muzzle heavy for me and I suspect the 58 caliber version would be quite a bit better balanced. Regardless, the kit was a lot of fun and is an awesome achievement by Kibler & Company.
dave
Thank you all for looking and commenting. I appreciate them very much. I want to mention a few points that may help those who choose to build these kits. Make sure you remember to file the pin holes in the barrel lugs into oval slots to allow the stock to move with humidity. Case in point, when I fitted the forward pin a few days ago, the stock had moved so much from a change in humidity that the hole no longer lined up. All the other holes were OK but I still filed them into short slots. The forward lug needed a pretty long oval slot to pass the pin. Make sure you sand the ramrod enough that it does not jam with humidity. The same goes for the patch box lid. If I had left the precise fit that came with the kit, it would long ago have been swelled in place by humidity. File a little extra space in the hole in the breech plug for the rear lock bolt. Make sure the bolt fits through it and rattles a bit in the hole. Having learned this the hard way, a precise fit of that bolt through the plug bolster could result in it acting like a jack hammer against the stock during recoil. A little slop in the hole will prevent that. If you decide to alter the stock as I did, keep in mind that Jim's well and precisely engineered kit is a system such that if you change one thing you are bound to find you need to change several other connected things. I urge folks just starting out to build the gun as Jim designed it with respect to the architecture. By all means add cosmetic flourishes all you want but leave the basic architecture alone unless you know what you are doing. With respect to embellishments, I strongly urge you to do some, even simple ones. In my opinion, the basic stock desperately needs moldings along the ramrod channel, lower butt stock moldings, the end of the cheek piece reduced in size and shaped a bit with perhaps a decorative line or two, some decoration on the patch box lid, and lock and side panel moldings. Just those simple features will enhance the rifle a lot particularly if you choose very monochrome wood like black walnut and cherry. Finally, the finished rifle with its 43.25" 54 caliber barrel weighs 8lbs 12oz. My Star of Bethlehem rifle with its big 41" D weight 62 caliber barrel weighs 9lbs but is better balanced and the weight is barely noticed. This 54 caliber Kibler is a bit muzzle heavy for me and I suspect the 58 caliber version would be quite a bit better balanced. Regardless, the kit was a lot of fun and is an awesome achievement by Kibler & Company.
dave
