Kibler Hawken?

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wseidel

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Update: To my surprise this morning, I found this thread referenced on the Muzze Blasts website. They also had a short video discussing this new development plus they followed up and confirmed the information with Jim Kibler himself. The only difference was the potential timeline of approximately 18 months. Though Jim shared this prospective timeline with me, he clearly could not guarantee that the kit would happen within this timeframe...simply an estimate. Regardless, it is good to know that a Hawken kit is likely coming soon. Thank you for your shared interest as that will no doubt have influence on Jim's decision.
 
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Jim hinted in his video series the Hawken is on the short list of builds. I would guess it will be an early full stock flintlock in 50-54 range. With the R&D Involved 18 mo might be pushing it.
 

springfield art

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While I have my sights on a Kibler SMR in the very near future if he puts out a Hawken I will be there.
Yeah, he'd sell a ton. I mailed him to do a pistol, he said he's considering. A Hawken would start the fur trade all over again! :)
 

Notchy Bob

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The people want a halved stock caplock hawkins gun and if he makes them, they'll sell.
No doubt. I don't own a "classic" Hawken halfstock (yet...), but would love to have one, well built and historically correct. However, my impression has been that Mr. Kibler is a flintlock specialist, and in fairness there are already some talented people producing Classic Hawken halfstock rifles... Mr. Bergmann and Mr. Selb, to name two. While either of those two gentlemen could and no doubt do build a few Hawken-styled flintlock rifles, I believe a top quality flintlock Hawken fullstock, in the form of a precision kit, would probably be very well received by blackpowder shooters and would very likely be a good seller for Mr. Kibler.

Whether he goes with a flintlock or percussion, fullstock or half, Mr. Kibler's reputation for quality will probably enable him to sell all he cares to produce.

I'm already in the queue for a percussion Hawken halfstock by one of the builders mentioned above. If Mr. Kibler comes out with a Hawken flintlock full stock kit, I would be very interested.

Notchy Bob
 
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No doubt. I don't own a "classic" Hawken halfstock (yet...), but would love to have one, well built and historically correct. However, my impression has been that Mr. Kibler is a flintlock specialist, and in fairness there are already some talented people producing Classic Hawken halfstock rifles... Mr. Bergmann and Mr. Selb, to name two. While either of those two gentlemen could and no doubt do build a few Hawken-styled flintlock rifles, I believe a top quality flintlock Hawken fullstock, in the form of a precision kit, would probably be very well received by blackpowder shooters and would very likely be a good seller for Mr. Kibler.

Whether he goes with a flintlock or percussion, fullstock or half, Mr. Kibler's reputation for quality will probably enable him to sell all he cares to produce.

I'm already in the queue for a percussion Hawken halfstock by one of the builders mentioned above. If Mr. Kibler comes out with a Hawken flintlock full stock kit, I would be very interested.

Notchy Bob
True but a Selb’s Hawken will cost a man north of $3000.

I should know, I’ve one on order.

If he could keep the pricing of a caplock Hawken kit around the $1100 his other kits go for (I can’t see why he couldn’t) he’d sell a ton. People know his kits are top notch with cream of the crop components and will have correct architecture with all the correct details.

In order to get than now, Selb, Bergman, et al. can provide but frankly it costs a fortune. Other than that you have the Pedersoli’s and below that the Lyman’s. They sell a ton of them. Having such an amazing and easily assembled kit in the Pedersoli price range, that will lend a gun far better than anything Italy has ever produced, is a no brainer and a game changed for the Hawken field.

Again, people really want the caplock Hawkens. All of his other guns are flintlocks and there are gobs of caplock shooters out there. A full stocked flintlock Hawken is an enthusiast’s venture. Not many outside the most dedicated segment of the sport even know that configuration exists. Jeremiah Johnson didn’t carry one right?

If Jim wants to break into the masses, he’ll make his Hawken in calibers ranging from .45-.58 or so, half-stock, and percussion.
 

Prairieofthedog

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While Jim K. certainly has a Hawken kit in mind for the future, it's gonna be a while. The kits he makes now,he can't build them fast enough, and now he is building his own locks and rifling barrels.Don't know if he has supply issues from Covid but very well could.Anyway a Fowler is coming first and that may take till next year.That's from the Horse's mouth,he sends out videos or e-mails occasionally.
 
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While Jim K. certainly has a Hawken kit in mind for the future, it's gonna be a while. The kits he makes now,he can't build them fast enough, and now he is building his own locks and rifling barrels.Don't know if he has supply issues from Covid but very well could.Anyway a Fowler is coming first and that may take till next year.That's from the Horse's mouth,he sends out videos or e-mails occasionally.
This is true. Due to a military deployment I had to cancel an order for one of his cherry SMRs last year. It took several months longer than quoted and I was going to be out the door before delivery sadly.

I am EXTREMELY happy to see how successful and busy him and his crew have been. It makes my heart soar like the hawk to know he has a bountiful supply of customers. His kits are a revolution for the hobby in giving world-class components and architecture in a very affordable and very easily constructed kit that takes little time to make with minimal skill needed.

His application of streamlined mass production CNC techniques to his kits was and is a brilliant move that he is clearly benefiting from. Without waxing poetic, he is the Henry Ford of the traditional Muzzleloading hobby.
 

Scota@4570

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To most a Hawken is a halfstock with two wedges and a hooked breech. The early fullstock ones are obscure to most shooters. Nobody has ever offered an authentically styled mass market late Hawken. IF anyone can, Jim will make it happen. The interest in such a rifle is huge. I find it puzzling and frustrating that he decided to go with a fowler. He must personally like fowlers? The mass market appeal of a fowler is probably 1:100th that of a really authentic Hawken. I would hope he would go with a rifle that follows the general lines of the Kit Carson rifle. The Carson was more svelte than most of the them. Some real Hawkins are ponderous and may not appeal to as wide a market.
 
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I guess its the circles we each travel in. Living close to Fort De Chartres and most people doing that time period type C and D French guns are the thing to have. Hawkens while very cool are to late for our time period and no percussion guns allowed at the shoots.
 
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Regarding the shoots at the Fort, not only are they Flintlock only but targets are set up in the fields around the Fort usually shooting toward the levee to use as a berm. Since there is no loading bench you are loading from the pouch hence no range rods etc. usually. An early Hawken, fullstock, flint, would be fine.
 

oncewas

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I guess its the circles we each travel in. Living close to Fort De Chartres and most people doing that time period type C and D French guns are the thing to have. Hawkens while very cool are to late for our time period and no percussion guns allowed at the shoots.
And I guess that is fine but I would hate to limit my self to just one style of muzzleloader because of where or what I live near.
 
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That's funny, I never thought of it as limiting. The time of the French in the heart of America is a fascinating time period and there is a wide world of interpretations that a reenactor could do and fit in. Everything from French militia, wealthy landowners wearing documented red silk breeches, billiard hall operators, metis Indians, farmers, boatmen, and on and on.
There were Frenchmen obviously, Germans, Swiss, one Scottish commandant so any nationality actually. Between Dr. Margaret Kimball Brown and Dr. Winstanley Briggs research into the Kaskaskia manuscripts and the Jesuit Relations for the early period there is a wide array of information available.
Do you know the first cattle drive west of the Mississippi could be argued to have been done by the French in 1739 supplying the outposts in Arkansas? Imagine trying to drive cattle through southern MO!
If lived in Wyoming or Montana I would probably be more interested in the late fur trade era and own a half stock percussion (which I used to do). If I lived in Florida I would probably be visiting Spanish forts and if I lived in New England I would definitely have a wheel lock and a match lock (I have shot both and they are very cool!) and maybe wearing pantaloons!
Have fun and enjoy our sport where ever you are!
 

Grenadier1758

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Then, of course, @French Colonial, there's the Trade Faire, the F&I Event and the November Winter Encampment and Woods Walk. All those events tend to focus on flint lock shooting, but the Trade Faire and Woods Walk will have plenty of flint lock rifles. The June Rendezvous is in some other category.
 
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Yes, June Rendezvous in some other category is an understatement for sure....If you have never seen it at a period encampment you probably will there.
I just noticed your from the St Louis area, I am sure you know how much French influence is in the area, History!
 

FlinterNick

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If I were Jim I wouldn’t. One of the issues some Of these kit suppliers have is back ordering supplies and materials, best to avoid that issue by keeping your selection to a minimal level.
 

Scota@4570

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Jim is manufacturing almost everything in house to avoid supply chain problems. He is not a parts bundler.
 

MtnMan

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If he builds it true to the real Hawken be prepared for a heavy gun. Mine weighs 10 lbs and only has a 32" barrel.
 
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