Kentucky Rifle compared to Hawken Rifle

[sportster73hp]

There is a tool for cleaning a pinned barrel without removing it called a “flushing tube”. For percussion you remove the nipple and thred the item into bolster with the hose in your cleaning water and work a patch in the bore. For a flint it resembles a “c” clamp. Center it over your touchhole hose into water and run your patch. Simple and the pins never need removed.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Here you can see my flushing kits. One is a tube attached to a nipple opened for good water flow.

Next is the flint flushing kit to clamp over the breech of my flintlock and a detail of the clamp. As I have said in other threads, if you get the flint lock flushing kit, get several of the o-ring sealing rings as they are easy to loose. The Derringer rifle has a breech of about 1" and that is about as big as the opening of the clamp. So, be sure the clamp will open large enough to fit over the breech and the touch hole. A slotted touch hole liner may not have a perfect seal. Works best on a flush touch hole or some small Allen sockets.

The last picture is of the flint flushing kit attached to my flintlock with the weighted end in a container usually filled with warm water with a squirt of dishwashing soap.

 

[Tumbledown]

Hey Stan:
Good to see you posting. I have my Frankenflint PA long rifle in .45 cal. and I can tell you it's a nightmare to clean, FOR ME. The barrel is pinned on so it takes about an hour to disassemble and reassemble, plus I have to be very careful when I reinstall the pins so as not to bend them or worse. If the pin "Drifts" you can blow out the stock wood on the opposite side. I'd rather just leave the barrel on, but then I dribble cleaner in between the barrel and stock, NOT good!! I just basically just stopped shooting it. At some point I hope to get a Hook breech Hawken style in Squirrel cal. That'll be a dream to clean. I had a TC Hawken flint in .50 cal. back in the mid 70's. A pure pleasure to clean, and I could clean that one thoroughly!
I doubt that this will help, but these are just my thought on the subject.
Stay safe buddy.
God bless:
Two Feathers

There's no need for complete disassembly for routine cleaning. Hold the gun at a 45 degree angle, stock facing up, towel wrapped around the gun just below the muzzle. (I use plain hot, soapy water.) Any liquids spilled will be drawn away by the towel or run down the top of the barrel.

 

[Ames]

I tried it. I gave up. It was a sloppy mess. I ended up pulling my liner and screwing in a bolt of the same size. Now it flushes clean as a nipple gun.

 

[Grumpa]

Stan,
It is time. Go with the Flintlock Pennsylvania Longrifle. You will never look back.

Richard/Grumpa

 

[simonbeans]

I am sure you have been given excellent advice in regards to you original inquiry. My thoughts involve more of a historical perspective. Quite possibly you are more interested in just shooting a black powder rifle, but for me, I obtain a firearm based on historical reality. I am interested in the 18th century of 1770-1790, thus I try to build or have made a firearm of that period. Granted, if you enjoy the 19th century historical period, an individual can have an "older" firearm than say 1845. Thus, an easy solution is to choose a specific time period and research the guns of that era. Personally, I am a flint man. Those cap guns will never catch on. (just kidding!!)

 

[Crow-Feather]

I have been shooting a Hawken rifle for over 20 years, but lately I have been thinking I would like to buy a Kentucky Rifle. The problem is that I don’t know anyone that has one that I could shoot so that I could decide if I would like it. I would like to have a .50 cal since my Hawken is also that caliber. I know there are a lot of people on this forum who shoot both. Could y’all tell which one of the rifles you prefer and why. I would appreciate your input before buying one.

Thanks,
Stan

I do like the hooked breach, but the pleasure of shooting a 42" barreled Tennessee Poor Boy 40 more than makes up for the extra time in cleaning it. The 40 caliber barrel is actually lighter than the barrel on my very old T/C flinter 45 caliber. To me, the long rifle is a bit more nostalgic and better looking than the short heavy Hawken types. I used a bit of silicone caulking tween the barrel and the front of the barrel channel to stop water running down the stock channel. If a good patch lube is used (moose milk) then there is not that much fouling to clean. There are many different ways to clean a pinned barrel. My wife uses her husband (chuckle). If you ever want to shoot beauty and worry about the cleaning, post "how do you clean your pinned barrel?) and you will read a bunch of ways it can be done.

 

[Art Caputo]

My Santa Fe Hawken built from a kit about 40 years ago, and my Hubbard Colonial styled flintlock. I find them equal in accuracy, and ease of cleaning. While roughly 7 inches shorter, the Hawken weighs 3-4 pounds more then the Hubbard due to the heavier barrel and stock design. As mentioned in a previous post, for the last 20 years I have favored the Flint (50cal) for deer hunting the wooded areas of the a Northeast. I would likely choose the Hawken( 54cal, actually .527”) for a Western elk hunt......if that day arrives.

 

[Stan flanery]

My Santa Fe Hawken built from a kit about 40 years ago, and my Hubbard Colonial styled flintlock. I find them equal in accuracy, and ease of cleaning. While roughly 7 inches shorter, the Hawken weighs 3-4 pounds more then the Hubbard due to the heavier barrel and stock design. As mentioned in a previous post, for the last 20 years I have favored the Flint (50cal) for deer hunting the wooded areas of the a Northeast. I would likely choose the Hawken( 54cal, actually .527”) for a Western elk hunt......if that day arrives.
View attachment 33276View attachment 33277

Great looking rifles, Art.

 

[Col. Batguano]

For looks and showing off, no question it's the full-stocked flint long rifle. With he longer barrel, you will get more velocity with the same powder charge, and it will one noticeably quieter. It WILL be heavier with more tube, and the barrel will be whippier, making getting an accurate load more tricky to develop. For practicality, and as a tool, go with a shorter half-stock cap gun. Barrel dwell time for your projectile will be 1/3 that of flint, and they need less powder (no gas loss through the TH). It IS however pretty much what everybody else with a ML'er has though (other than the in-lines).

If it were me, for purely utilitarian purposes, I would go with the most efficient TOOL I could get for the job at hand, when it is to function AS a TOOL. You don't get "style points" in the woods from game. On the range and from friends, it's a different story all together.

 

[tenngun]

I respectfully disagree. I could be a smart a** and say ‘then get you a modern gun if efficiency is all your looking for in the woods” but I know that’s not what you were saying.
I have hunted New Mexico and Arkansas with percussion planes style guns. Utah, Colorado Wyoming, Arkansas and Missouri with long barrels full stock flint locks.
Moving through persimmon groves with a long barrel is not any harder then a short.
When it’s raining so hard I can’t keep my flinter dry I’m not going to be in the woods with or with a percussion. A mulee at seventy five yards doesn’t care how you light your fire.
Not a lot of fighting these days with Frogs, Lobsterbacks, Billy Yanks( or Johnny Rebs) Red Injuns there is not a lot to be gained with choosing a cap popper over a rock in the lock.
pacific north west may be an exception as Cascade is an Indian word that means ‘is it ever going to stop raining’

 

[Stan flanery]

Thanks to all y’all for your input. I have a Hawken style rifle but would still like to have a long rifle. I check the for sale section of the forum daily so I’m going to wait until I see what comes across that “I can’t live without”.
Stan

 

[Scota@4570]

The preference is a matter of personal taste. Hawken is not all Hawken, TC is not a Hawken. They are lighter and shorter than a Hawken. I have a handmade copy of an average late general St Louis Hawken plains rifle that is extremely representative. It is is a half stock with a heavy 33" tapered barrel in 54 caliber. It is analogous to a Chevy 350 4WD or a Clydsdale draft horse.


I have a Kibler SMR in 36 cal. I used to own one in 45 caliber. They are long lean and light. More like Porsche 911 or a Greyhound dog. This is my top pick for offhand target shooting.

I have a Kibler colonial in 54 cal, it is long, heavier. Beautiful and interesting as an example of an early long rifle.

Long rifles with swamped barrels "hold" differently off hand. Because of weighting of the barrel and momentum they hang on the target better than a short rifle. That only holds for still air. On a windy day long is worse.

American long rifles are flint. A good flintlock is better than cap for reliability. Lock time is not perceptively longer than a cap-lock. Original cap lock examples were nearly always conversion.

My top pick is a Kibler SMR in 45 caliber. After that you get in to full custom rifles.

 

[Col. Batguano]

You should look at Pletch's data. Barrel dwell for a rock lock is around 0.09". It's about 0.032" for a cap gun. (Moderns can be as fast as 0.012".) That extra time in barrel dwell can make quite the difference in POI, particularly from an unsupported position like standing. Cap guns tend to be not quite as fussy as to procedure in loading as rock guns too. I'm not saying a cap gun can't have things go wrong, and a flinter can't be just as reliable, just that there are more things to pay attention to.

 

[flntlokr]

I have been shooting a Hawken rifle for over 20 years, but lately I have been thinking I would like to buy a Kentucky Rifle. The problem is that I don’t know anyone that has one that I could shoot so that I could decide if I would like it. I would like to have a .50 cal since my Hawken is also that caliber. I know there are a lot of people on this forum who shoot both. Could y’all tell which one of the rifles you prefer and why. I would appreciate your input before buying one.

Thanks,
Stan

When I decided to go for a long rifle after having a Hawken for 20 years, I tried a bunch of friends' rifles to 'get the feel' of the Kentucky style rifles. I have a messed up wrist, so have difficulty with some shapes, and drop. I measured the drop and length of my Hawken, which fit perfectly, then went through the stock specs on the Pecatonica site until I found one almost identical in those dimensions (Leman style, in my case) It fits perfectly, and I have been enjoying it for about 12 years now. I made it in .40 cal, as I wanted it for the squirrel shoots (=<.40 cal.). Enough difference to the .58 ball for my Jaeger, that I can't grab the wrong ones.