Kentucky/Pennsylvania rifle

Discussion in 'Firearm Identification' started by Peter Hyne, Feb 25, 2019.

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  1. Feb 25, 2019 #1

    Peter Hyne

    Peter Hyne

    Peter Hyne

    32 Cal

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    F0008BCE-4490-4AF8-8543-9E3CD6E54848.jpeg 6D9D32C3-82CA-4F55-99B3-A5ADA2576D4D.jpeg 8F81986D-DDAC-4B89-A961-01E1176862ED.jpeg F0008BCE-4490-4AF8-8543-9E3CD6E54848.jpeg 6D9D32C3-82CA-4F55-99B3-A5ADA2576D4D.jpeg A0E24EA8-C4FC-4AFF-8590-B60A3651E05C.jpeg 8C1FF99C-4644-40AB-A206-371D8F0FBD9D.jpeg D9F6F491-78B7-4361-A4FB-D75A2E4FC351.jpeg 839B999A-A0F3-4196-871B-426EAF60C193.jpeg EBA676B1-60F9-40F0-AC8E-D6C0D70232FE.jpeg 8F81986D-DDAC-4B89-A961-01E1176862ED.jpeg Hi thanks for letting me join this community. I’m over in England and have inherited a rifle. Can anyone help me with it’s identification and share their knowledge with me. I’ve attached some pictures. Thanks in advance Peter
     
    TFoley and Shot deer like this.
  2. Feb 25, 2019 #2

    DOUBLEDEUCE 1

    DOUBLEDEUCE 1

    DOUBLEDEUCE 1

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    That is an interesting looking rifle. Other than having inherited it, do you have any other information regarding the rifle ?
     
  3. Feb 25, 2019 #3

    54ball

    54ball

    54ball

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    It's hard to tell with out it in hand but.....,

    This is what I see.
    Percussion to flint conversion.
    Lock change
    added patch box
    rough stock work
    All together, my personal opinion is that this is a more contemporary build with old parts.
    There is a chance that this may be an old original percussion rifle that has had some "work done".

    This is what a real Peter Neihart Rifle looks like....
    https://www.morphyauctions.com/jamesdjulia/item/3363-369/
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
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  4. Feb 25, 2019 #4

    Kansas Jake

    Kansas Jake

    Kansas Jake

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    Is the name on the lock P Neihart? That is how I would read it.
     
  5. Feb 25, 2019 #5

    Peter Hyne

    Peter Hyne

    Peter Hyne

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    Thanks everyone, yes the lock reads p Neihart, I’ve no idea of its past only that my father who had a fair size collection of assorted guns, swords etc purchased it some years ago. I do agree the lock is not original to the gun as the wood to metal fit is poor.
     
  6. Feb 26, 2019 #6

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Zonie

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    According to "AMERICAN FIREARMS MAKERS", by A. Merwyn Carey © 1953, published by Thomas Y. Crowell Company: NEW YORK, :

    Peter Neihard 1785-1793 General gunsmith and maker of flintlock Kentucky rifles. Shop located in Whitehall Township, Lehigh County Pennsylvania. (Page 84")

    "AMERICAN GUN MAKERS" by L. D. Satterlee and Arcadi Gluckman, ©1940 Otto Ulbrich Co., Inc., Buffalo N.Y. says"

    NEUHARD, Peter - Also Neihard. Whitehall Township, Northampton Co. Pa., 1786-88.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  7. Feb 27, 2019 #7

    54ball

    54ball

    54ball

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    If that's a Peter Neihart Rifle...the 18th Century Pennsylvania Peter Neihart, I play 4th base for the Chicago Yankees.
     
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  8. Feb 27, 2019 #8

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Zonie

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    I don't know about your baseball playing but I agree. The architecture of the stock is completely different when compared with a Peter Neihart Rifle.

    Also, the trigger guard shape is different.
    The rail at the rear has a much deeper, more curved shape than those on the signed Neihart rifle. That deeply curved shape was not popular until much later.


    Here's a picture of a signed Neihart rifle

    upload_2019-2-27_14-47-22.png


    And, a picture of a unsigned rifle that is attributed to Peter Neihart

    upload_2019-2-27_14-49-30.png

    I have several other photos of rifles that are attributed to Neihart and all of them have the same basic shape stock and trigger guard.

    I also notice that all of these guns have lockplates which have a pointed rear rather than the rounded shape on Peter Hyne's gun.

    I suppose it is possible that a Neihart lock was reused on his gun but I don't think the rounded shape of the rear of the lockplate would have been something the Neihart of the 1780's would have used.

    Of course many people can have the same or similar names and I don't doubt that the lock on the gun being discussed could be contemporary with the times.

    In any case, his rifle is indeed interesting. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
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  9. Feb 28, 2019 #9

    TFoley

    TFoley

    TFoley

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    @OP - Is it your intention to shoot your old rifle?
     
  10. Feb 28, 2019 #10

    tenngun

    tenngun

    tenngun

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    I would point out that among the five civilized tribes we know there were gun smiths that were restocking guns. Random old parts mixed in to a new gun might not mean it’s a new build. Is it 1850s or before? Or 1950s?
    A photo of a Gettysburg civilian who fought and was wounded on the first day showed him with his war of 1812 US musket, greatly modified. This could be an antique ‘original’ rifle with out being an first time build.
     
  11. Mar 1, 2019 #11

    54ball

    54ball

    54ball

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    Zonie,
    I was not meaning to sound obtuse....I was trying to be more "tongue in cheek".;) If I could go back and edit out the sharpness of that response ...I would.:oops:

    The engraving on that lock plate is not right. It looks (trophy shop) modern. The pan and the cock are a mess, typical of the '1960s-80's Dixie Gunworks type parts used to convert old locks (usually percussion... that were always percussion "back" to flint.

    The rifle is very interesting. IMHO it's a mid-late 19th Century lower to middling quality piece or a more recent restock of a mid 1800s percussion rifle. Let's just say ...it's been enhanced.
     
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  12. Mar 1, 2019 #12

    Zonie

    Zonie

    Zonie

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    No need to explain your comment.
    I was the one who brought up the information about Peter Neihart and your "tongue in cheek" comment brought up a very good point.

    With that in mind I thought it might be a good idea to show Peter Hyne a few examples of what some of the Peter Neihart's guns actually looked like.
     
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