Phil Coffins
40 Cal.
The pants look like they’re based on union civil war trousers with a yellow stripe denoting Calvary enlisted grade. It has belt loops that wouldn’t be right and calvary had a reinforced crotch that is missing.
Jeremiah Johnson movie clothing
- Thread starter lou puleff
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Dag nab it, all this Jerimiah Johnson talk just made me rent the Jerimiah Johnson movie ( $3.99) from my cable provider! Even though I must've seen it 20 times, I watched it again with slightly different eyes.
Regarding Jerimiah's Hawken; I used to work in Civil War and Old West movie productions ( long story there), both as an extra and later as movie music composer, but it gave me access to movie armourers, the guys who make, re-make and procure firearms and all things weapon for tv and cinema.
The reason why Jerimiah's Hawken is hard to pin down for type is simple- it never was. That is, an armourer would be given the task of creating props, both working and non-working for the actor. In the old days they'd often take an exisitng rifle and modify with any existing parts from other guns) to resemble the actual rifle being represented. It was cost effective to do so and that explains why so many old movie westerns have odd looking guns.
Somewhere along the line it became important to represent those gubs accurately by having them custom made for the production ( Tom Selleck's Sharps rifle for instance), but before that movie makers just didnb't believe audiences were sophisticated to know the difference.
When Sydney Pollack made Jerimiah he realized that the Hawken rifle was central to the Jerimiah character, hence the armourer being given the task to create one.
And so that's what he did; walked into one of the studio prop gun storage units, found a few which closely resembled the Hawken and essentially created them as close as he could. Nowadays the movie studio would budget x ammount of dollars to have custom Hawken rifles made. But back in the 70's ?
Not so much.
Regarding Jerimiah's Hawken; I used to work in Civil War and Old West movie productions ( long story there), both as an extra and later as movie music composer, but it gave me access to movie armourers, the guys who make, re-make and procure firearms and all things weapon for tv and cinema.
The reason why Jerimiah's Hawken is hard to pin down for type is simple- it never was. That is, an armourer would be given the task of creating props, both working and non-working for the actor. In the old days they'd often take an exisitng rifle and modify with any existing parts from other guns) to resemble the actual rifle being represented. It was cost effective to do so and that explains why so many old movie westerns have odd looking guns.
Somewhere along the line it became important to represent those gubs accurately by having them custom made for the production ( Tom Selleck's Sharps rifle for instance), but before that movie makers just didnb't believe audiences were sophisticated to know the difference.
When Sydney Pollack made Jerimiah he realized that the Hawken rifle was central to the Jerimiah character, hence the armourer being given the task to create one.
And so that's what he did; walked into one of the studio prop gun storage units, found a few which closely resembled the Hawken and essentially created them as close as he could. Nowadays the movie studio would budget x ammount of dollars to have custom Hawken rifles made. But back in the 70's ?
Not so much.
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Eterry
58 Cal.
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If you want to spend many hours time-traveling find a copy of "Crow Killer" published in 1958. The authors use many interviews of Del Gue and White-eyes Anderson that were gathered around the turn of the century.
After 4 pages of comments, I still like the movie. ; )
You know I want to see an historically correct movie. And can nit pic a movie.
That said:
I love, The Patriot, LOM, Master and Commander, a movie they was pretty accurate, The Mountain Men, John Wayne’s Alamo and Commancheros the Kentuckians, Northwest Passage, Drums along the Mohawk and can’t forget ‘Time of their Lives’ with Abbot and Costello.
We have a lot better impression of historic events today. But I miss Ol’Bill Tyler at events I went to in the seventies
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Agree with you in main, a little less so for John Wayne’s Alamo, Commancheros and the Kentuckians.
Eterry
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kansas_volunteer
45 Cal.
Better late than never, I guess. I'm just now noticing this thread. As for JJ's trousers i think they are just impressionistic. If i were trying to pass as JJ I'd want the style worn by US Dragoons. They cavalry didn't come along until way after the fur trade petered out. I can see working some corduroy into an outfit.
I haven't seen the movie in a while, but my memory is the JJ rifle was more Ohio in style. Old Sally is definitely a bedraggled Ohio style rifle. The T/C Haeken and its ilk are fully Ohio in style and not a bit plains rifle.
Some of the dialog in the movie is lifted word for word out of Ruxton's book.
I haven't seen the movie in a while, but my memory is the JJ rifle was more Ohio in style. Old Sally is definitely a bedraggled Ohio style rifle. The T/C Haeken and its ilk are fully Ohio in style and not a bit plains rifle.
Some of the dialog in the movie is lifted word for word out of Ruxton's book.
Johnson is remembered as a Mountain Man. We give make believe dates as sometime after L&C returned and 1840, one of the last rendezvous. With the big dates 1822-1840.
Johnson was born in 1826, so didn’t come of age until about ‘46
Not saying he had them but he could have worn the dragoon style clothing when coming to the west.
Johnson was a Mountain Man just not part of our rigid time frame
Eutycus
62 Cal.
I'm a little confused was he in the army or the navy?
He had several names and unknown bio, it’s thought he was a sailor that jumped ship during the Mexican War. He is also thought to have been a Forty Niner and a wood cutter for steam boats on the Missouri River
Not much of a paper trail then when a mans name was what he introduced himself as
Not much of a paper trail then when a mans name was what he introduced himself as
Billy Boy
40 Cal
30 bore? That is 30 to the pound, a ball would weigh 233 grains, approx .54 cal....Who in that part of the world at that time would carry an actual 30 cal?
Pill would weigh around 35-40 gr..... . Hollywood could make it work, I’m sure.
A 30 cal would be a night low, but Leman did make 36 cal Indian trade rifles for the western trade. I’ve seen one .36 S Hawken.
As talked above the this seems a writers mistake who didn’t know about ML guns.
As talked above the this seems a writers mistake who didn’t know about ML guns.
In my opinion, the most redeeming aspect of this movie is - it got me interested in Hawken rifles and round ball guns in general. From a historical accuracy / reality perspective it missed the mark widely and now pruney Robert Redford ( who has not aged well at all ) has come out as a flaming liberal. However, all that said, I would still like a peek under the buffalo robe...
Grenadier1758
Cannon
The settling for a 30 is a direct quote from the book that the movie was based on. I agree with @Billy Boy, the use of bore size in balls per pound was very common as they would know approximately how many balls they had by weight. On one of my earliest posts I was chastised for assuming that the author of the book was confused about how bore size was identified in the 1830's.
Yes, there are S. Hawken rifles in small calibers such as 36 and 45 made for the local St. Louis and Illinois hunting and target shooting community. The Hawken shop may have actually produced more small caliber rifles than the larger caliber Plains Rifles. I have seen a J.P. Gemmer rifle in 45 caliber of reduced plains rifle architecture that was made after the ACW in the late 1860's. There are Hawken stamped and Dimmick rifles of reduced architecture in smaller calibers with brass hardware that are similar to the T/C Hawken. T/C probably wouldn't have sold as many rifles if they had called it a Dimmick.
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I found Crow Killer quite a disturbing read, yet I couldn't put it down.
I've tried to get a canoe jacket from NW traders, but they tell me they are not able to inspect wool blankets at this time because of covid???
I know they sell the patterns, but I have zero sewing skills. Any place else making canoe jackets?
I've tried to get a canoe jacket from NW traders, but they tell me they are not able to inspect wool blankets at this time because of covid???
I know they sell the patterns, but I have zero sewing skills. Any place else making canoe jackets?
Using the 'Balls per pound" calculation, Jeremiah's "wanted 50 Hawken " would fire a ball weighing 140 grains ( 7000 grains per LB / 50 ) or about a .45 caliber. It seems unlikely.
It’s been forty yeas since I read them. Was that a quote from ‘Crow Killer’ a bio of Johnson or ‘Mountain Man’the novel based on his life? As B I recall the movie was more like the novel. Though I would call the bio more of a novel too.
