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Jeremiah Johnson movie clothing

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Grenadier1758

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Now if one desires to faithfully recreate that movie character, the first item required would be a ".30 caliber Hawken". Good luck with that...:D
You have to remember that in the period, caliber was often used when they really meant gauge. So he really had a rifle in a caliber that used 30 balls to the pound or 0.537" diameter. I have been chastised that in the book used as the basis for the movie the author specifically referred to a 32 caliber rifle. I just let that pundit rave on. I think the author was talking about a 54 caliber rifle that used 30 balls to the pound.
 

Tom A Hawk

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You have to remember that in the period, caliber was often used when they really meant gauge. So he really had a rifle in a caliber that used 30 balls to the pound or 0.537" diameter. I have been chastised that in the book used as the basis for the movie the author specifically referred to a 32 caliber rifle. I just let that pundit rave on. I think the author was talking about a 54 caliber rifle that used 30 balls to the pound.
That makes perfect sense and further evidence to support the writer's need for a qualified technical adviser. You could have made a few extra bucks...:)
 

Walkingeagle

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You have to remember that in the period, caliber was often used when they really meant gauge. So he really had a rifle in a caliber that used 30 balls to the pound or 0.537" diameter. I have been chastised that in the book used as the basis for the movie the author specifically referred to a 32 caliber rifle. I just let that pundit rave on. I think the author was talking about a 54 caliber rifle that used 30 balls to the pound.
Then please explain when he finds Hatchet Jacks .50 cal?
Walk
 

Tanglefoot

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Grenadier,

As it happens, I've personally inspected two original Hawken rifles that were small caliber --- one was a .32 and the other was a .36. The .32 was on a table at a big gun show in Houston years ago. It had a 1-1/4" octagon barrel about 34 inches long (I didn't measure it) and the rifle was very heavy. The .36 was in Art Ressell's private collection, and I believe he also bought that .32. There was a third small caliber Hawken rifle that I personally know of, in the Cody Firearms Museum. It was labelled as a .30 caliber, but it was in a glass case and I couldn't examine it. That said, small caliber rifles were not real common or real popular west of the Mississippi, especially in the mountains. It's also true that most of us learn as we "mature" and our opinions change. A lot of writers take a hard stance on issues that they have to re-visit later when more information comes to light. For years, it was a strongly held opinion by many that every mountain man worth his salt packed a Hawken rifle and a Green River knife. Books were written on those subjects and some of them were made into movies. Now we know that both of those stand-bys came late to the mountains, and the Green River knives weren't even sold until the end of the Fur Trade Era, which ended in 1840. Hawken rifles - and for that matter, percussion caps - weren't made or sold "to the trade" in any quantity until the 1830's either, and the Fur Trade had been going on since 1804. Take a look at the displays in Cody, or Santa Fe, or the Museum Of The Fur Trade, or the AMM Museum. If only we could convince the people who make movies to do that before they put out another epic ..... !!
There floats my stick,
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tenngun

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I’ve seen plenty of photos of originals but the only Hawkens I’ve ever seen ‘in the flesh’ were small caliber.
 

Tanglefoot

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The half-stock rifle Redford used in that movie was a CVA with a brass shim between the buttstock and the forend. I don't believe anybody at GRRW would make a rifle that un-authentic. Doc White would probably have a coronary if they did. In real life, Johnson was a soldier and the pants he wore to the mountains were uniform pants.
The coat worn by Redford was a capote, and the pattern is available from DGW, Track of the Wolf, Log Cabin Shop, the Sketchbooks, and just about any other ML source you might find. Once you have the pattern, it can be laid out and cut from a 4-point Hudson's Bay blanket or any other wool blanket of the same size with enough material left over for a belt and some tassels for yr hood. Trapper's Blankets will work if you're not particular about authenticity. And yep .... a lot of trappers waded the streams in their only clothing. One of the problems was to get your moccasins dry before you rolled in your blankets for the night, otherwise they'd shrink and wake you up pinching your feets. Nobody ever said life in the Fur Trade was comfortable! Or safe. That movie was a good `un, but boys and girls --- it was a movie, with every bit as much research and authenticity as we've come to expect from Hollywood. At that, it did wonders for our sport and got a lot of folks started smelling powder smoke. Appropos of nothing else, Del Gue and Bear Claw Chris Lapp were real people, as was the Liver Eater. So was Hatchet Jack.

Tanglefoot
 

lou puleff

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Thanks for the info I will send Ron a e-mail to confirm but I remember him saying they built him a rifle and he wanted it to look beat up so they layed it on a bench and Every time they walked by it they smacked it with a tool of something to rough it up I've talked to doc several times and shared many e-mails I doubt he would have a issue with that ? In fact I talked to him today and he said he would always give the customer what they wanted.
 

lou puleff

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I was too young to start muzzleloading at that time I got started in the 90's because at the time I lived in new York "buffalo" and deer hunting was shotgun or handgun the shotgun ammo at the time wasn't like it is today so I bought a inline and got the muzzleloading bug now the inlines sit idle to my hawken,jeager and trade rifles in fact if I draw a rifle tag I'm usually packing a smoke pole instead I don't want to shoot a animal at 600 or 1000 yards I want to get close not that these guns can't do the job !
 

Zonie

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The half-stock rifle Redford used in that movie was a CVA with a brass shim between the buttstock and the forend. I don't believe anybody at GRRW would make a rifle that un-authentic...

Tanglefoot
A picture of "Old Sally", a rifle carried by Joe Meeks, a well known Mountain Man, has a two piece stock with a brass shim between the buttstock and the forend.

"Old Sally" is shown in Plate 51. The historic weapon...is crudely carved. On the right side of the stock "J. Meek, Rocky Mountains" is crudely carved. On left side are the words "Death" and "A. Kelly" and a running deer."
OLD-SALLY-web.jpg
 

Huntschool

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I am gonna back up Tangelfoots' comments and add..... Perhaps the GRRW gun being refered to is the one presented to Heston during the filming of "The Mountain Men" with Brian Keith. Blue Jacket had something to do with that as I remember. If you watch that movie you will notice that Heston starts out with a TC kind of gun and then shows up with a GRRW Leman full stock flinter. Also his possibles bag changes as Pat Tyrney (sp) gave him a hand made bag to go with the gun.

EDIT: Zonie, I agree but.... what is seen in that picture is a repaired fore arm of that there is no doubt. It does not even remotely match the rifle body itself. See the key escutcheon on the main body and then in front of the plate there is a pin and then what looks to be a different kind of escutcheon plate. This is a backcountry repair...

Just sayin.
 
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Tom A Hawk

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A picture of "Old Sally", a rifle carried by Joe Meeks, a well known Mountain Man, has a two piece stock with a brass shim between the buttstock and the forend.

"Old Sally" is shown in Plate 51. The historic weapon...is crudely carved. On the right side of the stock "J. Meek, Rocky Mountains" is crudely carved. On left side are the words "Death" and "A. Kelly" and a running deer."
View attachment 14864
Very interesting photo. A back action lock! And a TC Hawken trigger guard! Maybe this is where TC came up with their annoying hook...
 

lou puleff

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I could be wrong guys or maybe he mentioned the wrong movie but another possibility is he didn't use it in the movie maybe he just wanted it for his house as a wall hanger I'll try to find out more I already sent doc a message I'll forward when I hear back
 

lou puleff

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Ok I found out they did build him a half stock hawken that he still has hanging on his wall. maybe it wasn't for the movie not sure yet maybe after the movie he just wanted a similar hawken to go with the rest of his decor ? just trying to pin down the rest of the details.
 

lou puleff

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Well I find out more about it maybe he planned on using it and for some reason he didn't but my bets on what the guys at the factory tell me that's first hand knowledge !
 

Huntschool

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Lou puleff:

I was too young to start muzzleloading at that time. I got started in the 90's because at the time I lived in new York "buffalo" and deer hunting was shotgun or handgun. The shotgun ammo at the time wasn't like it is today so I bought a inline and got the muzzleloading bug
Wow, I know NY had rules limiting what firearm could be used on a county by county basis. I hunted Sullivan Co and several other Catskill counties as well as the Adirondacks and used a rifle while Orange and Rockland as well as some counties on the East side of the Hudson were shotgun and archery only...… This was in the 60's. A bit before your time I guess.
 
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