Jackie Brown barrels ?????

[tg]

At least a times over the years JB has had a helper or two in his shop which could explain some of his problems it is an easy trap top fall into when one has another to deligate tasks to in order to step up production.I have come close to burning my own arrse a time of two with three roof jobs and a couple of small remodles going at once in the past one can only efficiently watch so many things at once.

Capt Jas's take on the short cust hits the nail on the head this has been going on for 30-40 years but the instant communication provided by the internet has nmade everyone aware of these things and the accuracy or lack of quality/lack off in all mLs offered today the bar is going to raise rapidly for builders as the public comes to better underestand how the game has been played at their expense to a point.allready we see more and more people shopping for a more historical correct gun when in the past cost/quality/reputation was about the only gauge one measured by now a factor is being considerd that most "semi-custom" vendors (excuse the term it is only for production level identification) will find hard to meet as it is expensive to retool for proper locks, furniture and barrels as well as learning a bit about gun history so the customers are not talking over the builders head when ordering a gun, some may survive the change if when it occurs some may not, the sooner they dive into making a better option the better their chances look at how well Chambers has done, he does not make but half as many modles as some but he makes them right and that is his strongest draw for his customers.Individual builders like Mr.Brooks, Roy and many others have done this for a longtime combining top skills with top gun history knowledge I think that will be the key to sucess in making MLs in the future particularly when looking at how expensive the very generic imports have become, just some thoughts based on observations.

 

[tg]

"I read an article on live pigeon shooting in Europe.'

Hey Bud, not wanting to be a smart arrse but do they also have dead pigeon shooting over there? seems like those would be a lot easier to hit.

 

[paulvallandigham]

So that others understand your sense of humor, "Live Pigeon" shoots is a term used to distinguish these shoots from shooting at "Clay Pigeon" targets, such as are used in Trap, Skeet, and Sporting Clays events.

A live pigeon shoot has very different rules, requiring the bird to fall within a certain diameter circle from where its released to "count" for score. The pigeon, like its cousin, the dove, can turn on a dime, and give you back change. :shocked2: :rotf: :surrender: They are not easy targets to shoot. :idunno:

In states where the common pigeon is a nuisance bird, with no closed season on taking it, Live Pigeon shoots are still conducted in this Country, as well as in Europe. Lots of money are bet on the results, usually as "side bets" between competitors, but occasionally between spectators.

Its a very exciting form of shooting, but lots of animal lovers will picket, and protest and even attempt to get court orders to stop such shoots if they know when and where they will take place. If people knew how many diseases are transmitted to Humans from Pigeons, and their leavings, they would not mourn the loss of a single pigeon.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Obviously, you have not been to London. Pigeons are everywhere by the thousands. And a mess they do make. Calling them flying rats would be a compliment.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I'm late weighing in on this but it seems to have drifted off into squirrel hunting anyhow.
I recently had a J. Brown "fusil" in my shop for work. Not repair, but to correct a build fault which I found down right shocking.
The forged steel triggerguard had a twist in it which would not permit it to set flat against the wood. On the right side the guard, right at the pin lug, stood 3/16" above the wood. That's no exaggeration nor typo, it was a full 3/16" of the pin lug showing on one side. My first guess on examining the gun was that it was someone's first build. That before I saw "J.Brown" on the top flat.
There were lots of other corners cut. The barrel, as TG has said was untapered in the octagon section and that did indeed look clunky. He also had omitted and molding fore and aft of the lock panels. There was no molding around the tang either, all making a "plain" gun extra plain.
But the triggerguard was the shocker and the only thing I could fix.
As to why anyone would send a gun out with such a painfully obvious defect I can only come up with one reason, "he didn't care."
I don't knock another person's work, my own is far from perfect, but I would advise forum members to be aware that if you buy a J. Brown gun you won't know what you're getting until you get it. :shake:

 

[roundball]

I'm late weighing in on this but it seems to have drifted off into squirrel hunting anyhow.

Wrong again coyote...
:youcrazy:

If it was about "hunting" we would have been into methods, practices, calls, times of day, strategies, etc, etc.
Instead...in this smoothbore section...in this jackie brown DOM tube barrel thread...it was about performance of shot loads out of the DOM tube barrels being discussed....shot size / patterns / distances, etc...trying to learn and get a sense for what he experiences compared to other barrel performance characteristics I happen to have experience with.

:thumbsup:

 

[tg]

How much would the type of material a barrel is made of effect the pattern and such if the dimensions are equal,particulary on an open bored single shot where heat build up would not be an issue, it does not seem to me that there would be much difference, if so what would the contributing factors leading to variations twix the two be attributed? I must be missing someting here.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Unlike the excellent, real plated Lubaloy shot from Winchester decades ago, today's Lawerence brand or Ballistic Products brand stuff just seems to have a thin "wash" over cheap soft lead...just pouring then in and out of a metal coffee can, I notice more and more shiny spots where the thin wash just rubed right off, and I never got the performance out of them like I do with some Lubaloy...so for me, IMO the modern stuff is a sham and a waste of money...hard magnum lead shot patterns better for me.

At the risk of perpetuating thread drift, I should point out that Ballistic Products claims that their copper "plated" shot has the same alloy as the same size of their magnum shot - 2%-6%Sb, depending on size. They would not state the "plating" thickness, however. That batch you mentioned in another posts may indeed have been bad. I got some of their "plated" #5s to compare with their magnum #5s, to see if the surface smoothness of the copper "plating" (an inconsistent wash, as you observed) reduced feather balling, but I haven't shot enough birds with the plated shot yet to say, and I've only done limited patterning with it, too. On the other hand, their Ni-plated shot is supposed to have a plating of 0.118-thousandths of an inch (3 microns) over 2.5%Sb alloy regardless of size. I've read that the European Ni-plated shot is made there - one source said in Italy - and is a completely different product.

Regards,
Joel

 

[CoyoteJoe]

How much would the type of material a barrel is made of effect the pattern and such if the dimensions are equal,particulary on an open bored single shot where heat build up would not be an issue, it does not seem to me that there would be much difference, if so what would the contributing factors leading to variations twix the two be attributed? I must be missing someting here.

The barrel material or means of production would not affect the choice nor performance of shot in the least, and Roundball knows that as well as we do. :haha:

 

[laufer]

I'm late weighing in on this but it seems to have drifted off into squirrel hunting anyhow.
I recently had a J. Brown "fusil" in my shop for work. Not repair, but to correct a build fault which I found down right shocking.
The forged steel triggerguard had a twist in it which would not permit it to set flat against the wood. On the right side the guard, right at the pin lug, stood 3/16" above the wood. That's no exaggeration nor typo, it was a full 3/16" of the pin lug showing on one side. My first guess on examining the gun was that it was someone's first build. That before I saw "J.Brown" on the top flat.
There were lots of other corners cut. The barrel, as TG has said was untapered in the octagon section and that did indeed look clunky. He also had omitted and molding fore and aft of the lock panels. There was no molding around the tang either, all making a "plain" gun extra plain.
But the triggerguard was the shocker and the only thing I could fix.
As to why anyone would send a gun out with such a painfully obvious defect I can only come up with one reason, "he didn't care."
I don't knock another person's work, my own is far from perfect, but I would advise forum members to be aware that if you buy a J. Brown gun you won't know what you're getting until you get it. :shake:

his comment was that it must have been damaged in shipping. (not to mention that it was over a month late with his shipping and finishing the gun, the incorrect style and shape and arguing that he had been building those hc guns for so many years and nobody had complained on the shape and details.) he did offer to refund the full ammount and for the gun to be sent back, once i had toild him it is in another ma's hands to be fixed, but would not refund the cost of shipping and new part for fixing it. i will never, ever, ever deal with him and i would not reccoment him to anybody. au contraire, i will recommend to others not to deal with him at all!!!!!
i have shoot the gun with 120 grains of fffg under the dry wad and patched ball, works great, aims great (like all of his guns i have handled), makes great gropup at 50 yards, there are no vissible seams in the barrel.

 

[tg]

One of the guns I returned had a major break in the stock,like someone had tried to wrap it around a telephone pole interesting though ws the fact that there was not as much as a wrinkle in the box or any of the packing material :shocked2: I have shipped a lot of guns and recieved quite a few and this gun had to have been packaged allready broken, al in all the old "buyer beware" advice should be taken very seriously with some guns, I would suggest being able to see one of these before buying then there could still be some surprises if one could not take the gun down for a complete inspection, best of luck to all who are still waiting on one of these to be delivered...all that can be said has been said for anyone contemplating buying one :hmm:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Laufer, he is full of BS. The guard had to have been twisted before it was installed because neither the wood nor the pin securing it to the wood showed any damage. For the guard to become twisted that much it would have to shear the pin or more likely rip out the wood below the lock. Another short cut he used was that he didn't drill the pin all the way through to the other side. It was in a blind hole which made it a gripe to remove. :haha:

 

[roundball]

"...he is full of BS..."

Real nice talk...really makes your stock go up with the rest of the membership...and you must be slipping...you've made several negative posts now and haven't injected your favorite line yet...something like:
"...I know everything there is to know because I've been doin' this for over 50 years..."

:shake:

 

[Tony Logan]

I have no dog in this but,anybody that buys a JB gun after reading this thread and everything else you can find by just doing a little internet homework has definitely been warned. It seems like ole JB has sold a couple of "duds" in his time with out making everyone happy.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

OK roundball, I am greatful that you are so concerned about my reputation on the forum, but maybe you can explain to us ignorant fools how a pinned guard can move 3/16 of an inch without damaging the pin or the wood.

 

[shortbow]

Much more of this and I'll be leaving. Insults of other makers, ganging up, disrespect, wrangling, disputes, bad manners, just disgraceful behavior.

And no, I'm not asking for censorship like I was accused of last time I commented on all this fussin'. People only do this online because they hide behind anonymity and distance. Would you talk like this in person?

What's the point of all this anyway? In what way does it contribute? How is it any kind of fun?

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I shoot muzzle loading guns for fun and that plus learning more about them and the history and culture and art surrounding them is what I'm here for. If I just wanted to listen to silly fighting, sour grapes and insulting language, I'd get married again.

And btw I quite like my J. Brown gun. If I could afford to spend three times as much for a high end custom, maybe I would, but for the money, show me anything better.

I also get a kick out of the guys who slam him unmercifully, then turn around and say how well his guns perform.

Peace, brothers, or this site will end up with half a dozen malcontents who just want to sit at their computers and fight.

 

[Shine]

bye

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Shortbow, I am sorry if I have offended your sensibilities but I do believe a person contemplating purchase of a new gun should be entitled to know what they are getting. If review of guns and gun makers is not a legitimate function of this site then I don't know what is.
It's good that you are happy with your J. Brown gun but is it not fair to the membership to also hear from those who are not happy with theirs?

 

[BEP]

Shortbow's objections were "Insults of other makers, ganging up, disrespect, wrangling, disputes, bad manners, just disgraceful behavior."

Shortbow isn't the only one who dislikes this kind of behavior. When attacks become personal threads lose so much of their usefulness.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Shortbow's objections were "Insults of other makers, ganging up, disrespect, wrangling, disputes, bad manners, just disgraceful behavior."

Shortbow isn't the only one who dislikes this kind of behavior. When attacks become personal threads lose so much of their usefulness.

If this thread offends some then I suggest you stop reading it. Pretty simple. :idunno: