Ithica Navy Hawken value?

[Harmonica Bob]

Hi Y'all, I"m wondering what the value of My Ithica Navy Hawken rifle could be? It's a nice rifle and will group one jagged hole. It's almost 50 years old. It has a piece stamped "cherry corners" and says 50 cal Navy Arms Co Ridgefield N. J. The serial nimber is on the bottom of the barrel. 2547 it is like the rifle posted by GRRW collector that is number 2564. It is not for sale. As I look at different rifles and rifle kits being sold for sort of high prices, I wonder what my rifles are actually worth?

 

[poker]

There was one just sold for $200. Most would realize that was a fluke, but it does bear into your question, so Id say anywhere from $200-$2000 depending on who buys it.

 

[brownac1983]

There was one just sold for $200. Most would realize that was a fluke, but it does bear into your question, so Id say anywhere from $200-$2000 depending on who buys it.

If you're talking about the one in the classifieds, I'm the buyer on it. While I think the price is very good, and they're both great rifles, the one he's describing is a slightly different model.

The .50 Hawken in the classifieds was marketed as the "Hawken Hurricane". They were a more plainly appointed rifle, but built very strong and specifically for heavy conicals.

The Ithaca/Navy Hawken was Navy Arms' first Hawken rifle, and was built from leftover parts purchased from Ithaca Black Powder Division, which in turn had bought out Cherry Corners.

Both are great rifles, and a man would be lucky to own either. I've seen the Ithaca/Navy rifles consistently bring higher prices than the Hurricanes. I think that's mostly because people aren't familiar with the Hurricanes and there's not as much information available on them as far as their development and who made the parts. The Ithaca/Navy rifles have a little more brass on them, dual barrel wedges, and an easily searchable story behind them. Plus, people love to see "Cherry corners" parts, I've seen those bring good money individually.

As with all such questions, condition and market are everything. Assuming it's in nice shape and well cared for, I'd expect it to fetch $400 to the first person who could get their wallet out, $500 on average, or $600 if you're willing to sit on it until the right buyer comes along.

 

[Harmonica Bob]

If you're talking about the one in the classifieds, I'm the buyer on it. While I think the price is very good, and they're both great rifles, the one he's describing is a slightly different model.

The .50 Hawken in the classifieds was marketed as the "Hawken Hurricane". They were a more plainly appointed rifle, but built very strong and specifically for heavy conicals.

The Ithaca/Navy Hawken was Navy Arms' first Hawken rifle, and was built from leftover parts purchased from Ithaca Black Powder Division, which in turn had bought out Cherry Corners.

Both are great rifles, and a man would be lucky to own either. I've seen the Ithaca/Navy rifles consistently bring higher prices than the Hurricanes. I think that's mostly because people aren't familiar with the Hurricanes and there's not as much information available on them as far as their development and who made the parts. The Ithaca/Navy rifles have a little more brass on them, dual barrel wedges, and an easily searchable story behind them. Plus, people love to see "Cherry corners" parts, I've seen those bring good money individually.

As with all such questions, condition and market are everything. Assuming it's in nice shape and well cared for, I'd expect it to fetch $400 to the first person who could get their wallet out, $500 on average, or $600 if you're willing to sit on it until the right buyer comes along.

I built mine over 40 years ago. I will never sell it. I had a "dead nut's" 150 yard load for it. That rifle fed my family for many years. I was doing a little maintance to it and noticed a cherry corners stamp on one of the parts. I was a regular at the Navy Arms store. I just wonder what some of my stuff is worth. Anyway, it has more value to me. Please tell me about the rifle you bought from the classified.

 

[brownac1983]

I built mine over 40 years ago. I will never sell it. I had a "dead nut's" 150 yard load for it. That rifle fed my family for many years. I was doing a little maintance to it and noticed a cherry corners stamp on one of the parts. I was a regular at the Navy Arms store. I just wonder what some of my stuff is worth. Anyway, it has more value to me. Please tell me about the rifle you bought from the classified.

I'll relay the story of both of them as best I can, based on my admittedly limited reasearch on the subject.

Bud Brown was the gunsmith/owner of Cherry Corners Gun Shop. He designed and produced the Cherry Corners components which had a great reputation among builders, and eventually tooled up enough to offer his components in a full rifle kit. Sometime around 1976, for reasons perhaps known, but unknown to me, he decided to cease production at Cherry Corners and offer the business for sale. The buyer was Ithaca, and Brown stayed on for a while as a consultant to get them up and running. Ithaca made the rifle, presumably unchanged, for 18 months before (again, for reasons I haven't found) selling their Hawken business to Navy Arms. Navy Arms continued production of the same rifle, adding only their name, using a lot of left over Cherry Corners and Ithaca parts. At some point they began sourcing parts from Italy and offering rebranded Italian Hawkens, although I'm not sure how long they built their own rifles with Italian parts before just offering the rebranded Italian guns. I've read from a few sources that there was some overlap (for example, Ithaca/Hawken barrel with Italian lock), but I haven't studied enough examples to know for myself. The Ithaca/Hawken was the premium rifle from the start, with fine fit and finish. A complete Ithaca/Hawken had a list price in 1977 of $420. If you plug that into an inflation calculator, that equals $2,057.09 today.

http://grrw.org/ithaca-hawken-ithaca-gun-co/

The Hawken Hunter and Hawken Hurricane were original designs of Navy Arms, and were supposedly the pet projects of Val Forgett. These were serious hunters' rifles, with less attention to historical accuracy and embellishment than the Ithaca/Hawken. They were made to have classic looks but to shoot more powerful loads for the toughest big game. The twist rate was sped up to perform with heavy conical bullets. A patent breech with heavy breech plug and attached tang was used to handle the increased pressures. This design was offered under two model names (Hawken Hunter and Hawken Hurricane) in three variations. the Hawken Hunter was a real monster, a .58 caliber rifle with an advertised maximum load of 175 grains of FFFg under a 610 grain slug (yep, you read that right). Val Forgett took this rifle and the Navy Arms Buffalo Hunter to Africa to hunt the "Big Three".

Also offered was the "Hawken Hurricane", which was basically the same rifle downsized to mortal proportions. It was offered in .50 (advertised max load 140gr FFFg under a 377 grain slug) and .45 (advertised max load 125gr of FFFg under a 255 grain slug). All three models (Hunter, Hurricane .50, and Hurricane .45) listed in their 1976 advertisement for $195, which is $1,017.18 in today's money, a little less than half the price of their Ithaca/Hawken.

That said, they're both fine rifles for their intended purpose, but their target markets were different. One has to take note, though, of the disparity between their original retail prices adjusted for inflation and what they bring on the used market today in great condition. Personally, I believe today is the "good old days" for buying US made traditional muzzleloaders. There are currently no mass produced US made options, and I doubt there will be in the near future. I think a lot of these guns and Thompson Centers are surfacing as the people who bought them in the '70s-'90s exit the hobby, and I think that will help hold the price down in the near term. But anyone would realize that there's no way we could replicate these guns today for the kind of money they're going for right now on the secondhand market. My advice is if you've got them, keep them, and if you see them at a decent price, buy them. I think we're at the bottom of the price curve. Just my 2 cents.

 

[poker]

Personally, I believe today is the "good old days" for buying US made traditional muzzleloaders. There are currently no mass produced US made options, and I doubt there will be in the near future. I think a lot of these guns and Thompson Centers are surfacing as the people who bought them in the '70s-'90s exit the hobby, and I think that will help hold the price down in the near term. But anyone would realize that there's no way we could replicate these guns today for the kind of money they're going for right now on the secondhand market. My advice is if you've got them, keep them, and if you see them at a decent price, buy them. I think we're at the bottom of the price curve. Just my 2 cents.

Id sure agree with this. But the driver behind the low prices is the lack of money in the ordinary persons pocket. Fuel and food increases easily ate up any discretionary spending. Let alone the other bills people encounter. I’m thinking we will see good muzzleloaders at much lower prices yet before this cycle is over.

 

[Harmonica Bob]

I'll relay the story of both of them as best I can, based on my admittedly limited reasearch on the subject.

Bud Brown was the gunsmith/owner of Cherry Corners Gun Shop. He designed and produced the Cherry Corners components which had a great reputation among builders, and eventually tooled up enough to offer his components in a full rifle kit. Sometime around 1976, for reasons perhaps known, but unknown to me, he decided to cease production at Cherry Corners and offer the business for sale. The buyer was Ithaca, and Brown stayed on for a while as a consultant to get them up and running. Ithaca made the rifle, presumably unchanged, for 18 months before (again, for reasons I haven't found) selling their Hawken business to Navy Arms. Navy Arms continued production of the same rifle, adding only their name, using a lot of left over Cherry Corners and Ithaca parts. At some point they began sourcing parts from Italy and offering rebranded Italian Hawkens, although I'm not sure how long they built their own rifles with Italian parts before just offering the rebranded Italian guns. I've read from a few sources that there was some overlap (for example, Ithaca/Hawken barrel with Italian lock), but I haven't studied enough examples to know for myself. The Ithaca/Hawken was the premium rifle from the start, with fine fit and finish. A complete Ithaca/Hawken had a list price in 1977 of $420. If you plug that into an inflation calculator, that equals $2,057.09 today.

http://grrw.org/ithaca-hawken-ithaca-gun-co/View attachment 171536
The Hawken Hunter and Hawken Hurricane were original designs of Navy Arms, and were supposedly the pet projects of Val Forgett. These were serious hunters' rifles, with less attention to historical accuracy and embellishment than the Ithaca/Hawken. They were made to have classic looks but to shoot more powerful loads for the toughest big game. The twist rate was sped up to perform with heavy conical bullets. A patent breech with heavy breech plug and attached tang was used to handle the increased pressures. This design was offered under two model names (Hawken Hunter and Hawken Hurricane) in three variations. the Hawken Hunter was a real monster, a .58 caliber rifle with an advertised maximum load of 175 grains of FFFg under a 610 grain slug (yep, you read that right). Val Forgett took this rifle and the Navy Arms Buffalo Hunter to Africa to hunt the "Big Three".
View attachment 171540

Also offered was the "Hawken Hurricane", which was basically the same rifle downsized to mortal proportions. It was offered in .50 (advertised max load 140gr FFFg under a 377 grain slug) and .45 (advertised max load 125gr of FFFg under a 255 grain slug). All three models (Hunter, Hurricane .50, and Hurricane .45) listed in their 1976 advertisement for $195, which is $1,017.18 in today's money, a little less than half the price of their Ithaca/Hawken.

View attachment 171537View attachment 171539

That said, they're both fine rifles for their intended purpose, but their target markets were different. One has to take note, though, of the disparity between their original retail prices adjusted for inflation and what they bring on the used market today in great condition. Personally, I believe today is the "good old days" for buying US made traditional muzzleloaders. There are currently no mass produced US made options, and I doubt there will be in the near future. I think a lot of these guns and Thompson Centers are surfacing as the people who bought them in the '70s-'90s exit the hobby, and I think that will help hold the price down in the near term. But anyone would realize that there's no way we could replicate these guns today for the kind of money they're going for right now on the secondhand market. My advice is if you've got them, keep them, and if you see them at a decent price, buy them. I think we're at the bottom of the price curve. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Kiltman20]

I purchased a Ithaca / Navy Arms, a year ago. I paid 500 for it. I wouldn't sell it for that now.

 

[Harmonica Bob]

That is great info! I was in that store all the time. I met Val, but mostly he stayed upstairs in his office. I am sure that I looked at these "Big Game" guns but I can't remember them. I only bought 4 guns from that store, over several years. Anyway, I bought a TC Hawken kit somewhere? I put a "drop in" .54 Green Mtn. barrel and had a Picatiny rail put on it. I wanted a nicer rifle, so I ordered a .54 flint Yorktown Rifle from Cabin Creek Muzzeloading. All this was over 30 years ago. Maybe 12 years ago I bought a Civil War 1861 Springfield. More recently I found a real nice 1862 Richmond for $200 at a pawn shop! They are all very accurate and I shoot all of them from time to time. Thanks!

 

[Harmonica Bob]

I purchased a Ithaca / Navy Arms, a year ago. I paid 500 for it. I wouldn't sell it for that now.

My rifle is number 2547. Probably made around 1980. I think I bought mine as a kit in 1981? It was $225. That was more than a TC Hawken kit. GRRW collector put photo's of his rifle up on line. It is no. 2564. I killed a big doe with a heart shot at 138 yards, I paced the distance from the tree I was in to the deer. I nailed a steel plate at 150 yds. every single time I shot at it! I may have killed 20 or 30 deer with that rifle over the 40 years I have been shooting it. At the range it shoots one hole groups. However, that Douglas barrel is fussy. My Green Mtn. barrels are much more forgiving

 

[LME]

I have no idea what they are worth? I bought two of the last ones made in 1985 and will not get rid of mine and my friend who got the other one felt the same way. My friend is gone now.
Had to edit my post, I gave $900.00 for the two rifles!

 

[hiker45acp]

Id sure agree with this. But the driver behind the low prices is the lack of money in the ordinary persons pocket. Fuel and food increases easily ate up any discretionary spending. Let alone the other bills people encounter. I’m thinking we will see good muzzleloaders at much lower prices yet before this cycle is over.

I agree to this. As I have seen the market drop considerably on most firearms all around, even collectible ones. (New England area.) People are putting their priorities first and then what ever is left over if any they put to their sport and recreation. For a lot of us it is becoming a challenge to pay the bills, eat healthy, fuel and maintain our vehicles etc.. in what has become out of control inflation. So buying a new or used firearm, of any kind becomes low on the list. Selling one to buy one seems to be what works.

 

[Mulemauler]

Condition is everything, but these were top drawer rifles and probably the most "Authentic" of the "Hawken" replicas. Ithaca only made them for about 18 months, and while I've never heard how many were made, can't be many. I've sold them from $400.00 for a average shooter to almost $800.00 for a REALLY clean one.

 

[brushblind]

We're talking a Grand for an Ithaca Hawken in great shape! Go up or down from there depending on cond.

 

[gemmer]

We're talking a Grand for an Ithaca Hawken in great shape! Go up or down from there depending on cond

I owned one that I didn't really care for until I had a friend"s father who worked in Navy's shop work on the lock and triggers. It came with a lock mainspring that was an as is casting, no heat treating, etc. I didn't find that out until it broke. IMHO, it was in no way the most "Authentic" Hawken replica but it was the best I could afford back then. I can't imagine anyone paying more than $500.00 for one now.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

I'll relay the story of both of them as best I can, based on my admittedly limited reasearch on the subject.

Bud Brown was the gunsmith/owner of Cherry Corners Gun Shop. He designed and produced the Cherry Corners components which had a great reputation among builders, and eventually tooled up enough to offer his components in a full rifle kit. Sometime around 1976, for reasons perhaps known, but unknown to me, he decided to cease production at Cherry Corners and offer the business for sale. The buyer was Ithaca, and Brown stayed on for a while as a consultant to get them up and running. Ithaca made the rifle, presumably unchanged, for 18 months before (again, for reasons I haven't found) selling their Hawken business to Navy Arms. Navy Arms continued production of the same rifle, adding only their name, using a lot of left over Cherry Corners and Ithaca parts. At some point they began sourcing parts from Italy and offering rebranded Italian Hawkens, although I'm not sure how long they built their own rifles with Italian parts before just offering the rebranded Italian guns. I've read from a few sources that there was some overlap (for example, Ithaca/Hawken barrel with Italian lock), but I haven't studied enough examples to know for myself. The Ithaca/Hawken was the premium rifle from the start, with fine fit and finish. A complete Ithaca/Hawken had a list price in 1977 of $420. If you plug that into an inflation calculator, that equals $2,057.09 today.

http://grrw.org/ithaca-hawken-ithaca-gun-co/View attachment 171536
The Hawken Hunter and Hawken Hurricane were original designs of Navy Arms, and were supposedly the pet projects of Val Forgett. These were serious hunters' rifles, with less attention to historical accuracy and embellishment than the Ithaca/Hawken. They were made to have classic looks but to shoot more powerful loads for the toughest big game. The twist rate was sped up to perform with heavy conical bullets. A patent breech with heavy breech plug and attached tang was used to handle the increased pressures. This design was offered under two model names (Hawken Hunter and Hawken Hurricane) in three variations. the Hawken Hunter was a real monster, a .58 caliber rifle with an advertised maximum load of 175 grains of FFFg under a 610 grain slug (yep, you read that right). Val Forgett took this rifle and the Navy Arms Buffalo Hunter to Africa to hunt the "Big Three".
View attachment 171540

Also offered was the "Hawken Hurricane", which was basically the same rifle downsized to mortal proportions. It was offered in .50 (advertised max load 140gr FFFg under a 377 grain slug) and .45 (advertised max load 125gr of FFFg under a 255 grain slug). All three models (Hunter, Hurricane .50, and Hurricane .45) listed in their 1976 advertisement for $195, which is $1,017.18 in today's money, a little less than half the price of their Ithaca/Hawken.

View attachment 171537View attachment 171539

That said, they're both fine rifles for their intended purpose, but their target markets were different. One has to take note, though, of the disparity between their original retail prices adjusted for inflation and what they bring on the used market today in great condition. Personally, I believe today is the "good old days" for buying US made traditional muzzleloaders. There are currently no mass produced US made options, and I doubt there will be in the near future. I think a lot of these guns and Thompson Centers are surfacing as the people who bought them in the '70s-'90s exit the hobby, and I think that will help hold the price down in the near term. But anyone would realize that there's no way we could replicate these guns today for the kind of money they're going for right now on the secondhand market. My advice is if you've got them, keep them, and if you see them at a decent price, buy them. I think we're at the bottom of the price curve. Just my 2 cents.

Excellent post: thanks! I used to frequent Bud's shop in the early-mid '80's. At that time he was the warranty repair shop for Smith and Wesson, which might be why he divested his interest in the Hawken parts he made. I recall seeing a complete parts kit mounted on a wall in his shop. FWIW I wouldn't sell a nice rifle made from Cherry Corners parts for under $1K.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

Hi Y'all, I"m wondering what the value of My Ithica Navy Hawken rifle could be? It's a nice rifle and will group one jagged hole. It's almost 50 years old. It has a piece stamped "cherry corners" and says 50 cal Navy Arms Co Ridgefield N. J. The serial nimber is on the bottom of the barrel. 2547 it is like the rifle posted by GRRW collector that is number 2564. It is not for sale. As I look at different rifles and rifle kits being sold for sort of high prices, I wonder what my rifles are actually worth?

If you look on the rifle, somewhere Ithaca will be spelled correctly. Write it down so you don't forget!

 

[Harmonica Bob]

I owned one that I didn't really care for until I had a friend"s father who worked in Navy's shop work on the lock and triggers. It came with a lock mainspring that was an as is casting, no heat treating, etc. I didn't find that out until it broke. IMHO, it was in no way the most "Authentic" Hawken replica but it was the best I could afford back then. I can't imagine anyone paying more than $500.00 for one now.

My lock and triggers were just a bunch of parts that didn't fit together. I had to file, polish and hand fit all of them. My mainstring is fine. It hasn't failed in 43 years. This rifle means allot to me beacuse of all the work I did on it, and that it came out really good.

 

[Harmonica Bob]

If you look on the rifle, somewhere Ithaca will be spelled correctly. Write it down so you don't forget!

Dear Grammar Cop, My rifle says Navy Arms Co.

 

[Okie Hog]

Several years ago i paid $150 for a Navy Arms "Hurricane" Hawken that had probably never been fired. The stock was badly dried out and i livened it up with linseed oil.

After killing a few hogs using conicals, that rifle sat around for many years. Finally, the barrel was shipped to Mr. Hoyt, who turned it into first class .54 caliber round ball rifle with rounded grooves and 1/66" rifling..