Italian Made Guns

[Boston Bill]

Ruger could bring back the ROA with ease.

IF there was a market for it... just saying.

Ruger started to sell the Old Army a couple of few months ago

 

[SPQR70AD]

Can you imagine buying an American made cap & ball revolver again?

Don't know about rifles, but having purchased a couple cap and ball revolvers in the last little bit, I am up on the prices and availability a little there. I picked up a Pietta Dance and Brothers revolver from BudK of all places, for a nice price of $300 with free shipping a month or so ago. I notice they now have them priced at around $350 and they are out of stock. Dixie had them, at the time I bought mine, at around $350 (IIRC) and now they have them on sale for $325 and in stock.

I also bought a Uberti 1st model Dragoon from Dixie, about the same time, that they had on sale for $325, which is still shown as on sale, but "currently unavailable". Dixie has a number of percussion revolvers on sale in fact. So kind of a mixed bag I guess.

The one thing I have seen some volatility in lately is the conversion cylinder market with many sources selling out and prices varying widely, although I wouldn't know why, as they are a domestic product.

As far as buying American, I agree, its for the best, but should we lose the Italian makers, it is going to hit the War of Northern Aggression military style rifles, and pistols hard. Hopefully, if that turns out to be the case someone domestically will step up.

I think the Italian makers, and even the domestic production surviving, largely depends on how this all plays out and who is left with the upper hand coming out the other side. We all may very well have more to worry about than where we can pick up that next muzzleloader.

if colt were to make those revolvers today they would be over a $1000. what most people don't reallize is these 'American" companies have illegals working there like mossberg

 

[SPQR70AD]

Chambers, Kibler, Rice, Colerain, Davis, L&R, the list goes on and on and on.

Those are just folks making components. There are excellent builders (and you can build a kit yourself) in this country. 100% American made components, FAR better quality and attention to detail than any mass-produced European product. Guns that actually look faithful to historic designs. No “BLACK POWDER ONLY MADE IN ITALY SERIAL NUMBER THIS AND THAT” billboards all over the barrels, and supporting American artisans and craftsmen.

As someone who’s owned Italian/European repros for years I know where I stand. They generally are NOT bad guns, but leave a whole lot to be desired in some areas, and SOME are indeed not well made, even from names like Pedersoli I’ve gotten some real dogs with severe design issues and poor construction.

I used to think American guns were “too expensive”. When you look at the prices Pedersoli demands for their wares, and compare them to used or new American customs of simple design, it isn’t really true. A little digging and networking can uncover some excellent deals on American guns. True, a hand carved bespoke American long rifle is NOT going to be cheap, but builders abound who focus on simpler rifles and fowlers, pistols, shotguns, muskets, you can it, who can build you a gun with superb components for a very reasonable fee.

The pride of ownership of an American gun, with excellent lock and barrel produced by our fellow countrymen, is incomparable to any repro. Some get in this game thinking the Italian guns are all there is or all they can afford. THIS IS JUST NOT TRUE.

most americans were from Europe anyway. as far as I am concerned there is no america left. our industry gutted 120 languages spoken in Cali schools. we hardly produce anything but financial thiefs who become billionaires destroying gutting and looting cabelas sears etc. the "america" you speak of is long gone

 

[Billy Boy]

We all have to start somewhere. If it weren’t for entry level products and prices, I would never have been able to enjoy this wonder hobby. Same with kayaks, bikes, I even had a starter wife. Don’t run down the entry level products.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

I have a Uberti London Navy I bought about 10 years ago & I had a Colt Navy reproduction that, IIRC, Colt made/marketed back in the 60's or 70's. The Uberti is a better revolver is every aspect. That's why I sold the Colt! I know that is a small sample to make a judgement from, but it's all I have for comparison. When looking at Pedersoli's catalog of firearms, it's mind-boggling how many different ML's they make & all I have been around have been well made, attractive guns. Without the Italians our choices would be very limited. I doubt any American gun maker would step up to the plate with the same array of guns should the Italians tank. I'm going to keep hoping for the best during these uncertain times.

 

[Howard Pippin]

Smokey, buying American is good in theory, but if one has a limited budget, hasn't shot muzzle loaders, or isn't sure if it is a road they want to travel your options are mostly limited to a used Thompson Center Hawken. Renegade or Seneca. Most folks can't afford the $1000 or more it would cost to get a finished gun from the makers you listed. I own a bunch of guns. I've never paid $1000 for any of them. A gun in that range is simple out of my budget range. In fact most medium cost firearms are out of my budget range and have been for most of my life. Family, kids and other obligations have always come first. The pieces I own were mostly bargains found by being on the lookout for a opportunity.

Hi Jake.
We're on the same track. As much as I prefer to buy American, as much as I can, or afford, yet I realize that foreign is not a four letter word and I don't mean to be facetious. Where I live out West, if we couldn't sell wheat and beef overseas, we would cease to exist because we can raise, more by far, than what the US needs. And I agree if it wasn't for the Italian made muzzleloaders I would probably have stuck to my American-made cartridge guns. We should appreciate being able to choose sometimes, I do find fault when I discover that the only thing available come from China, like television and medicine. There is much more that could be, should be manufactured here. The one thing I don't want to see, is government regulation, on where things can be made, And yet unfair competition is not the way to go. Hopefully the president is able to do something about tariffs.
Squint

 

[caspar25]

With such a HUGE market for US-made goods, you really don't need anybody else in the whole wide world to buy ANYTHING made by an American gun-maker. However, the reality is that while there is no doubt about the quality of materials and the intrinsic design and manufacture of ANY US-made gun, it has to be proofed on an individual level here in Europe and in the rest of the world that relies on the tenets of the CIP to maintain the safe and shootable quality and integrity of each and every firearm imported into any of the member states.

It's no use saying 'we don't NEED your overseas markets, we can keep them all to ourselves', without realising that you already do just that.

As much as I'd like to, I can't buy ANY US-made firearm, custom or mass-produced, without it having to go through the rigours of gun proof, and get marked up somewhere [hopefully where it can't be seen] with indelible and immovable 'proof' of that process. Y'see, in the US you can 'defarb' anything to your hearts content and put on anything you like instead, or nothing at all - your choice. Here in the CIP nations it is a criminal offence to offer for sale a firearm that has no visible proof marks.

With such a HUGE market for US-made goods, you really don't need anybody else in the whole wide world to buy ANYTHING made by an American gun-maker. However, the reality is that while there is no doubt about the quality of materials and the intrinsic design and manufacture of ANY US-made gun, it has to be proofed on an individual level here in Europe and in the rest of the world that relies on the tenets of the CIP to maintain the safe and shootable quality and integrity of each and every firearm imported into any of the member states.

It's no use saying 'we don't NEED your overseas markets, we can keep them all to ourselves', without realising that you already do just that.

As much as I'd like to, I can't buy ANY US-made firearm, custom or mass-produced, without it having to go through the rigours of gun proof, and get marked up somewhere [hopefully where it can't be seen] with indelible and immovable 'proof' of that process. Y'see, in the US you can 'defarb' anything to your hearts content and put on anything you like instead, or nothing at all - your choice. Here in the CIP nations it is a criminal offence to offer for sale a firearm that has no visible proof marks.

and that's good.

 

[Enfield58]

I have a Uberti London Navy I bought about 10 years ago & I had a Colt Navy reproduction that, IIRC, Colt made/marketed back in the 60's or 70's. The Uberti is a better revolver is every aspect. That's why I sold the Colt! I know that is a small sample to make a judgement from, but it's all I have for comparison. When looking at Pedersoli's catalog of firearms, it's mind-boggling how many different ML's they make & all I have been around have been well made, attractive guns. Without the Italians our choices would be very limited. I doubt any American gun maker would step up to the plate with the same array of guns should the Italians tank. I'm going to keep hoping for the best during these uncertain times.

I have two 2nd generation Colt C&B revolvers that use to give me nothing but trouble.

After doing a lot of work on both of them they now run like Singer sewing machines.

All the Italian revolvers work great. The only thing I’ve done with ALL of my revolvers is put Slix-Shot nipples on them.

I did do one makeover of a friend’s Pietta 1860 Army. After swapping out and fitting all the internals he acted like one of the wallflowers you see on the makeover television shows.

I never saw a grown man giggle like a toddler with a new toy so much in my life.

That was the only exception to the dozens of Italian revolvers I’ve shot or worked with.

 

[Crow-Feather]

So the Italians are losing hundreds of countrymen and women to the virus and you want to destroy their economy. Have you no heart. Besides that they are accurate and well put together. My wife, when in her late 60's took 1st place in our yearly long range shoot with her Pedersoli rolling block single trigger. Next year I put her in 2nd pace with my Pedersoli 1874 Sharps. We have about 20-30 shooters. I sold my 54 Pedersoli plains pistol to a friend who recently took 1st place in our local pistol shoot with a near perfect score. When it comes to Buy American, I buy Ram pickups. If I want to do well shooting with a store bought gun, I buy Pedersoli.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

So the Italians are losing hundreds of countrymen and women to the virus and you want to destroy their economy. Have you no heart. Besides that they are accurate and well put together. My wife, when in her late 60's took 1st place in our yearly long range shoot with her Pedersoli rolling block single trigger. Next year I put her in 2nd pace with my Pedersoli 1874 Sharps. We have about 20-30 shooters. I sold my 54 Pedersoli plains pistol to a friend who recently took 1st place in our local pistol shoot with a near perfect score. When it comes to Buy American, I buy Ram pickups. If I want to do well shooting with a store bought gun, I buy Pedersoli.

Ram trucks is owned by Fiat, an Italian company & many are assembled in Mexico. There is no more "Dodge". Fiat owns Jeep, too! It's a global economy! A Toyota or Nissan may be made in Mississippi or Tennessee. A John Deere excavator could be made in Japan & a Komatsu can be made in the USA. A name says nothing about ownership or where it's made. Just the way things are these days. Everything else you said is spot on. The Italians are fine gun makers. Beretta has been around since the 16th Century!! Uberti, Pietta, Pedersoli & others are long standing firms with good reputations. I, like you, don't get why anyone would wish ill will on our biggest suppliers either.

 

[Eutycus]

My only beef with Italian gunmakers is their 800 lb. Gorilla Luigi who puts the nipples on too tight.

 

[longcruise]

I don't think buying one rifle constitutes hoarding.

Regarding kits, you can buy a Kibler kit for a couple hundred more than a GPR. For $1050 you can get a kit far superior to any Italian kit pedersoli included and it will go together easier than a Lyman kit.

 

[Capnball]

Wondering what is going to happen in the future with the cost and availability of Italian made M/L's is going to be.

For the most part, all of the M/L's are made in Italy today. There is really no way at this point to speculate what is going to happen with the situation there now.

Guess if a person has been considering buying an Italian made M/L this might be the time to get it before there is really a shortage in the future and the price increases which are sure to come.

Also wonder what will happen to used market if anything.

fdf

I would guess like every other business in the world , Italian gun makers will take a hit. On the other hand, Italian gun makers aren't a new thing. They've been around about as long as guns have been around. When this is over and the virus has given us its worst , everything will rebound. Now, I'm one of those people who, if I can't get it from one place, I'll get it from another and if there is no place to get something, I'll make my own. This is an awful thing we're all going through but it's not the worst thing the country or even the world has faced. It's just the worst thing we've faced in our lives. Be safe, be good to your family and neighbors and we'll all tell little kids about this many many years from now!
"I'm pretty sure my fridge just said What do you want now?
Neil

 

[Enfield58]

My only beef with Italian gunmakers is their 800 lb. Gorilla Luigi who puts the nipples on too tight.

It's not Luigi, it's Sophia...

 

[Notchy Bob]

Buy American. You’ll get a much better gun.

Maybe if the Italians start to lose business, they’ll at least attempt to make guns that more closely resemble traditional firearms to draw people back in?

Chambers, Kibler, Rice, Colerain, Davis, L&R, the list goes on and on and on.

Those are just folks making components. There are excellent builders (and you can build a kit yourself) in this country.

I'm not picking on Smokey Plainsman. It's just that he provided us with food for thought.

I think the comments are not comparing Italian to American guns as much as they are comparing mass-produced guns from the Italian factories to hand-made guns from American builders. The firearms that are mass-produced in the Italian factories, for the most part, are replicas of guns that were mass produced in days gone by, primarily military weapons. The Italian-made replicas of American sporting arms, I think, may be what Smokey Plainsman is talking about. They may leave something to be desired. I would say that American builders, on the other hand, concentrate primarily on sporting (civilian) arms. I don't think we can necessarily make a one-to-one comparison.

As for the resemblance to traditional firearms, as mentioned in the quote, we need to consider whose tradition we are talking about. The Pedersoli Waadtlander and Swiss Match rifles, for example, appear to be excellent replicas in the German and Swiss traditions. The relatively new 1854 Lorenz replica was shown to be very close to the original, inside and out, in a one-to-one comparison by the "capandball" guy.

I would also like to point out that many mass-produced factory guns, regardless of who made them or where they were made, need some work. If the moderators will permit me, I will say that just a few years ago I bought a brand new, American-made S&W "Mountain Gun," a large-frame double action revolver in .45 Colt, only to find that it had no rifling in the barrel. I had to send it back to the factory for them to replace the barrel. There was no charge, but what a hassle!

I also went through a lengthy cowboy action phase some years back. All of my "cowboy" revolvers were American factory made (Rugers and US Firearms), and all of them needed action work, especially the Rugers. As discussed on a separate active thread on this forum, the "top of the line" Pedersoli guns, both pistols and long guns, are a cut above their run-of-the-mill Kentucky pistols and Alamo and Frontier longrifles, and they are priced accordingly... Pretty much in line with American-made custom guns.

The Italians know gun making. Beretta has been in business since 1526! When the replica market really gained traction in the mid to late twentieth century, it is true that some of the products coming out of Italy were sub par. I think most of these were from start-up companies that did not last. The ones making better products (e.g. Pedersoli and Uberti) continue in operation, and in my opinion, their quality control has continued to improve.

I don't know what the long-term effect of the COVID-19 pandemic will be on the Italian firearms industry. I wish them the very best. Their country is in a true crisis right now. I would expect a hiatus in firearms production, but I think the demand for the Italian-made replicas is certainly there, and I sincerely hope their factories will get back up and running, providing employment and income for their workers and their families, and providing guns for those who want them. Not just in the United States, but world wide and especially in Europe. Our black-powder shooting family is an international one, and the Italian gunmakers and shooters are our brothers in arms.

So, whether you buy Italian or American may not depend so much on national pride as on what kind of gun you want, and hopefully, you'll get what you pay for.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Rudyard]

I could say variety is the spice of life it would be fitting if cliché . I don't have any replica or factory made guns but do realise the need for the' black powder only' stuff Though UK or Birmingham at least will put all that stuff underneath yet the actual Proof mark is all that is needed on the visible per historic anyway . Petersollis have put out varied some times' down to a price' guns . But then they have put out very good still affordable offerings . There is a need for all price ranges . No doubt the US made better higher end stuff is fine but the tastes & pocket of the customer will as ever determine what they will buy as was always the case. Rudyard

 

[mushka]

Italians have been making guns longer than just about anyone else on the planet. I'm personally grateful that they do make guns.

 

[mushka]

I have American made guns and Italian made guns and Spanish made guns. Amazingly they all shoot very well. I like-em all.

 

[sawyer04]

There’s no reason to throw our hands up and go on a spending frenzy. There will be Italian products and toilet paper Despite this virus

I think the Italian pieces are a little over priced, I have had a few, but reworked the locks and triggers to make them acceptable. Toilet paper will be abundant after the hoarders and gougers get their bellies full. Preppers were mostly prepared for this hic-cup. Maybe this is a way to find how to humble the derelicts of our society.

 

[Carbon 6]

Kind of funny to see people ripping on the Italians. Let's compare a few things.
Pedersoli was founded in 1957 , Thompson Center in 1965 Only one still makes muzzleloaders.

Spaghetti westerns were way better than American ones.

Ask a cowboy action shooter which gun he prefers.

If you doubt Italian quality and craftsmanship, take a walk through Beretta's museum.