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Is this stain a good choice?

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Seeking advice for stain for my first kit build--a Pendersoli Kentucky Flintlock pistol. I'm just starting this kit, and I'm not in any sort of hurry, but I've noticed that the online retail industry is now showing some long to very long wait times on deliveries, so I might as well start doing some research and maybe even order stain.

I believe the stock on this kit is walnut. I'd like to achieve a finish that's lighter and possibly with some red tones, similar to maple if that's possible. I will be browning the barrel and I've selectedd the Laurel Mountain cold browning solution. I notice they also sell antique stains, and wonder what you all think about them? Here's the link as a reference: Antique Wood Stain - 4 oz - $17.99 : Laurel Mountain Forge, the finishing touch

Any thoughts? I'm not into reenactment, so I don't need to be 100% PC. I'd like something that looks sharp, but with the walnut that I have, I realize this isn't going to be a super fancy look.

As I'm a newb, I am most appreciative.
 
It’s not easy to lighten wood up using a stain. Some use a yellow-ish stain on American walnut to tone it down.

LMF stains get favorable reviews from many. I’ve used them a little with success.
 
Hi, TX A pic of your wood would be of much help. Walnut will never be made to look like maple, grain texture and inherent color are fixed. $17.99 is excessive to the extreme for 4 oz of stain in my mind. I am used to paying about $30 for a gallon of min-wax stains. Doing wood floors for more than 30 yrs. I have been asked to make white oak look like walnut, cherry, mahogany, etc. no matter what you do you end with white oak with a color over the wood. Just my thoughts.
Dave
 
I ordered a pedersoli trade gun kit from Dixie gun works and it should be here today,the stock is walnut and I also would like a hint of red in the stain ,I see Birchwood casey has a stain called rusty walnut that might fit the bill..its best to try in in the barrel channel first to see if you like it.
 
TX FlynHog
Try this. I hope it helps? I'm sorry for the length, but it won't let me attach the Word file other than this way? It came from a guy I know.
God bless:
Two Feathers

Once all the wood work was finished, I used a damp wash cloth with water and wiped the stock down to raise the grain, let it dry and once dry, I used 150 grit sand paper on my rifle and card board sheet to knock the whiskers down. Wetting the stock raises the grain and allows any scratches to float up and be knocked down with a final sanding. This process may have to be repeated multiple times to achieve perfection. NOTE: Any time you wet a gun stock, be sure to install the lock and patch box afterward to prevent the wood from closing in and causing fit issues. Let the stock dry with the lock and patch box installed! It will save you lots of headaches in the long run.

If you don't have a work place that's set up for wood working, you can use a low profile box like I did to keep all the wood dust/shavings from being scattered on the floor. Its also a good way to keep from losing parts while you are assembling the kit and fitting the metal.


I do HIGHLY suggest that you mark your wedge key plates with the direction they go and what side they go on. Sometimes if you get them mixed up and install them on the wrong side or upside down, the wedge key will not properly fit through them as they may be filed on a certain side, more than the other. Lightly grease the screws before reinstalling as brass is soft and can easily break due to the snug fit

Staining the stock! Now this is always the part I love! I got a Birchwood Casey refinishing fit, along with a bottle of their Rusty Walnut stain. I finally decided that I wanted a nice DARK stock this time around, along with a chocolate brown lock and barrel to just really bring out the romance of the wood and steel. The downside to a dark finish of course is that it can hide wood figure.

You'll see in the pictures below of the stain being applied in stages and how the color transforms.

Once I had the color where I thought it was just right, I used 0000 steel wool ( included with the refinishing kit) and lightly buffed the stock to smooth it out and remove heavy deposits of stain. Doing this helps removed just enough stain that it lets the wood grain underneath pop out and show itself a little bit.

In total, 6 coats of Walnut and 2 coats of Rusty Walnut were used to achieve the desired color that I wanted. The Rusty Walnut added that beautiful touch of red, but not over powering red when the sunlight hits the stock.

4 coats walnut

After a total of 6 coats walnut - 2 coats of rusty walnut. Stock was allowed to dry over night before being lightly buffed with 0000 steel wool. The next series of pictures will follow!


After buffing the stock with steel wool, I tested a small area of the stock with Boiled Linseed Oil to check for correct color stain. It was perfect! I took a section of cheese cloth and soaked it in BLO, and wiped the stock down so it could suck up the oil and allow the real finish of Truoil to build up faster. Once the BLO sits on the stock for around 20 minutes, I'll wipe it off and allow it to set up for a day or two before applying thin coats of truoil. Thick coats of truoil ends up making your stock look like plastic. Avoid heavy coats!

Once the BLO had dried for 2 days, I wiped the stock down with a lint free cloth and applied 6 drops of Tro-Oil on the rear section of the stock and gently rubbed in. Keep the Tru-oil light, otherwise you will get to much build up,sags,runs in the finish! The finish must be applied thinly and allowed time to soak in.

Once I have ONE coat of Tru-oil on the stock, I allow it to dry for a full 24 hours. You may read online of some folks asking why their stock feels tacky. That's due to them applying to much finish at one time or multiple coats in a short period, now allowing for proper dry time between coats. Yes, 24 hours is a long time to wait, but guess what? It flat out works and allows the finish time to soak in and set up. By coat #3, I was already filling the grain and the wood was taking in a glossy shine. Plus, No tacky feeling

Once I had 4 coats applied, I used 0000 steel wool and gently buffed the gloss finish back to a dull finish. This helps cut the finish back and then fills the grain as you apply the next 2 coats and so on. Normally I will apply 3 coats of tru-oil, giving each coat time to set up before applying the next, and then buff it back. Doing this removes all the tiny little rough looking holes in the finish ( grain ) so you eventually build up enough finish for a smooth glass like overall finish.

Take your time! The finish is the heart and soul of this project, it's the first thing people look at when they ask to see your rifle to admire it or in some cases, scrunch up their nose once they see a shoddy looking stock finish. One thing I love about beechwood is the gorgeous "Gold Nugget" figure its always has in the stock. This stuff just pops out like crazy with a dark finish, especially when the sunlight hits the stock.

Remember, those classic patina muzzleloaders we see from the 1700-1800s looked NEW at one time and over use, took on that patina due to hard use in the field. Let your muzzleloader take on that patina naturally over the next 10-20 years of use. Don't do a sloppy job and use the excuse of "Ahhhh! they all looked like this in the old day!" because they did not all look like that in the old'n day!

One other tip I can offer while applying the finish is that when it sets up, do yourself a favor and place the lock back into the stock, as well as the patch box! Any drips into the lock area or patch box can easily build up over time, causing fit issues. Replacing these parts will help cut any finish out rather than let it build up until you really have a problem!

It's also a great idea to install these parts while you buff the stock with steel wool. Keep the edges sharp and clean without digging through the finish, into the stan/wood, leaving light marks. All you need is the weight of your 2 or 3 fingers while you polish the finish with the steel wool.

Note the brass! I lightly buffed the brass with 120 grit sand paper ( Sand in ONE direction ) and then used Birchwood Casey Brass Black on a cotton ball and wiped/rubbed the product in until I got the desired color. I normally go for a pitch black color because by the time I wash the part afterward, dry it and then wax the part, some of it rubs off and leaves a beautiful antique patina look. This really is a fun product to use! It does a wonderful job of safely antiquing brass and a whole lot easier than letting it age naturally.
 
Hi,
I'll show you several examples of stain and finish in American black walnut and English walnut. Each was applied to meet specific objectives. The first is a British carbine stocked in black walnut but stained to look as close to the original English walnut as possible. In the first photo I stain the stock with a dilute black aniline dye dissolved in water. This is part of my whiskering and scratch removal process but the black color remains in the open pores after scraping it all off. That black color highlights the grain and give an old mellow look. After scraping off the black, I paint it with pure yellow aniline dye. This kills the cold purplish brown common in black walnut and warms it up to an orange red. I rub off some of the color with a maroon Scotch Bright pad and then stain it with alkanet root infused in mineral spirits to add a deep red. That was a classic stain used by 18th and 19th century British gun makers for walnut. The the gun was finished with Southerland Welles polymerized tung oil.
JimGHuj.jpg

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The next gun is black walnut stained with yellow dye and a dilute coat of LMF walnut stain
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FybXlGo.jpg

The next gun is stocked in English walnut and first stained black, then scraped, and then stained with alkanet root. The finish is S-W polymerized tung oil.
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xES8ufA.jpg

The next gun is stocked in English walnut and stained with black, alkanet root, and dilute LMF walnut stain. The first photo shows the stock along with an original 1760s English fowler stocked in English walnut.
STODX2K.jpg

p1GC9wV.jpg

Finally, these pistols were stocked in black walnut and stained yellow and then finished.
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RYbbtd7.jpg


Hopefully, this will give you some ideas.

dave
 
Thanks folks... keep the suggestions coming! Two Feathers, If I'm reading that post correctly, they are suggesting three different products? Stain, followed by boiled linseed oil(BLO), followed by tru-oil(TO)? Further... as many coats of the stain as you need to achieve the desired color, then multiple coats of BLO and tru-oil.

Is that a common approach?
 
Dave--Those gun finishes look amazing, and to be honest, I'm not sure which I prefer the best! That first one is absolutely gorgeous, but I think I might have a heart attack if I saw that black color go on my stock without knowing how it would turn out in the end! I may need to PM you to find out more about your process. I'm a newb, so when you say things like "scrape off" I don't know if you mean that you literally painted the stock with that black concoction, then had to re-sand it to get all of that black stuff off again, or if the concoction comes off easily with a little steel wool, or a "scraper." Whatever the process, your process turns out gorgeous stocks, and that's kinda what I'm trying to do.
 
LMF stain work on maple. None of the hardware store stains are suitable for maple. A little goes a long way. The price is not relevant on a rifle that is worth $2K + when done. I bought all the LMF stains as a package deal several years ago. I like it. I mix and match to get the result I want. I do not expect one color to be the magic potion. Every stock is different.

For walnut LMF stain will certainly work. Walnut being porous will cause it to get too dark quickly. I suggest diluting the stain with alcohol, acetone or lacquer thinner and darkening it gradually. You wrote that you wanted it to be a lighter color. IF so wet the wood with water and decide if you need stain at all. Walnut can be successfully stained by hardware store stains. I would not mess with Minwax. It is low on pigment and solids in the finish. It is pretty worthless IMHO. I have tried about everything out there over the years.
 
Thanks folks... keep the suggestions coming! Two Feathers, If I'm reading that post correctly, they are suggesting three different products? Stain, followed by boiled linseed oil(BLO), followed by tru-oil(TO)? Further... as many coats of the stain as you need to achieve the desired color, then multiple coats of BLO and tru-oil.

Is that a common approach?
Yes, that is correct. I did my Dr.s 2 Hawkens with this method, and while a bit more labor intensive, it does an excellant job. Now...if your a "purist," then you might ant to go with dave_person's method
Thanks for your reply. Hopefully something here helps?
God bless:
Two Feathers
 
Seeking advice for stain for my first kit build--a Pendersoli Kentucky Flintlock pistol. I'm just starting this kit, and I'm not in any sort of hurry, but I've noticed that the online retail industry is now showing some long to very long wait times on deliveries, so I might as well start doing some research and maybe even order stain.

I believe the stock on this kit is walnut. I'd like to achieve a finish that's lighter and possibly with some red tones, similar to maple if that's possible. I will be browning the barrel and I've selectedd the Laurel Mountain cold browning solution. I notice they also sell antique stains, and wonder what you all think about them? Here's the link as a reference: Antique Wood Stain - 4 oz - $17.99 : Laurel Mountain Forge, the finishing touch

Any thoughts? I'm not into reenactment, so I don't need to be 100% PC. I'd like something that looks sharp, but with the walnut that I have, I realize this isn't going to be a super fancy look.

As I'm a newb, I am most appreciative.
Before you do any staining, take your unfinished stock outside into the bright sunlight. Then, pour some water on it.
Only by doing this will you know what your finished wood's color and darkness is.

Walnut usually doesn't need a stain but if you decide to stain it remember, you will lose some of the contrast between the brown and dark brown streaks that walnut often has.

If you do decide to stain it, never use a oil based stain. If the bottle or can the stain is in mentions paint thinner or mineral sprits, leave it on the shelf.
You want to use either a alcohol based or water based stain on your wood.
 
Guys, I cannot express my gratitude enough for all of this advice! A few have mentioning possibly not needing stain on walnut.. Please help me understand what I would do if I determine that a stain is not needed? Assuming I like the look of the wood when wet, would I just use boiled linseed oil(BLO), followed by tru-oil(TO)?

Also... I don't know one oil from the next, so BLO vs. TO is a foreign language to me. Two-Feathers recommends using both products... Is that standard?

What do others use instead of stain, assuming the wood looks good when wet?
 
My ideas are based on finishing over 100 stocks, Here goes...

BLO is a crappy finish. An expert can incorporate it into a finishing scheme. IT is not something that makes a decent finish by itself. Just because it was in common use in the past does not make it a good choice.

TO will work , dilute it. IT is a step up from BLO because it actually dries. Some people are allergic to it and will get a rash. I have found that it stays sticky for a while.

Any varnish applied very thin will work better. McClosky spar varnish is good stuff. A finish marked for gunstocks will be good.

With walnut you will need to fill the grain. Do this with mineral spirits diluted finish and wet sand with #320 wet dry paper to make mud. Let the mud fill the grain. Commercial wood grain filler works very well and is easier. I'd use "walnut" color. After the grain is filled use your finish of choice. Filling the grain with a gillion coats of finish is a waste of time.

The ultimate sheen is determined by how you treat the finish, not what you use to finish. IF you want a low gloss work the dried finish with pumice and lemon oil.

There is no magic finish. 99% of the result is based on the technique.
 
Guys, I cannot express my gratitude enough for all of this advice! A few have mentioning possibly not needing stain on walnut.. Please help me understand what I would do if I determine that a stain is not needed? Assuming I like the look of the wood when wet, would I just use boiled linseed oil(BLO), followed by tru-oil(TO)?

Also... I don't know one oil from the next, so BLO vs. TO is a foreign language to me. Two-Feathers recommends using both products... Is that standard?

What do others use instead of stain, assuming the wood looks good when wet?
Like I said, just wet the surface of the unfinished wood with water to see what the wood will look like. It will look exactly like this if you put a finishing oil on it without adding any stain at all.

BLO is Boiled Linseed Oil. TO is Tung Oil. (I hate acronyms because to someone new to the subject they mean nothing.)

While Boiled Linseed Oil will work as a finishing oil it takes a LONG time to dry and you really need to have several coats of oil on the stock to give it any resistance to handling and to the elements. Pure Tung oil also takes a long time to dry. There are Tung oil's that have dryers in them to speed the drying process up but I really think that using a product that is made for finishing gun stocks like Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil is a better way to go.

It is Linseed oil based with dryers in it so it will dry in about 2-4 hours. Tur-Oil is available at most gun stores, some hardware stores and at places like Track of the Wolf which sells things that are made for muzzleloaders.
 
Hi, TX A pic of your wood would be of much help. Walnut will never be made to look like maple, grain texture and inherent color are fixed. $17.99 is excessive to the extreme for 4 oz of stain in my mind. I am used to paying about $30 for a gallon of min-wax stains. Doing wood floors for more than 30 yrs. I have been asked to make white oak look like walnut, cherry, mahogany, etc. no matter what you do you end with white oak with a color over the wood. Just my thoughts.
Dave

I agree with Dave (as does the wood), grain remains, even after bleaching. You 'might' try a surface tint and artistic false graining, but most of that I've seen is marginally credible - at a distance - and would be ugly on a stock, in my opinion.
 
Hi,
This is not meant as any comment on the fine Kibler rifle shown by Jim Evans. His rifle shows the typical color of black walnut and the pistols I show above would look similar if I had not stained them pure yellow first. The yellow warms up the colder purplish-brown typical of American black walnut.

dave
 
Seeking advice for stain for my first kit build--a Pendersoli Kentucky Flintlock pistol. I'm just starting this kit, and I'm not in any sort of hurry, but I've noticed that the online retail industry is now showing some long to very long wait times on deliveries, so I might as well start doing some research and maybe even order stain.

I believe the stock on this kit is walnut. I'd like to achieve a finish that's lighter and possibly with some red tones, similar to maple if that's possible. I will be browning the barrel and I've selectedd the Laurel Mountain cold browning solution. I notice they also sell antique stains, and wonder what you all think about them? Here's the link as a reference: Antique Wood Stain - 4 oz - $17.99 : Laurel Mountain Forge, the finishing touch

Any thoughts? I'm not into reenactment, so I don't need to be 100% PC. I'd like something that looks sharp, but with the walnut that I have, I realize this isn't going to be a super fancy look.

As I'm a newb, I am most appreciative.
Galazan red/brown water soluble stain from midway and some brownell boiled linseed oil is the ticket but I would try under the butt plate area first to see if you like it if you want a light finish you might just use the linseed oil and no stain.
 
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