Is This Possible?

[ord sgt]

I attended a reenactment at Martin Station in Western Virginia several years ago and they were pretty safety-conscious. The head honcho inspected my flintlock and gave me a small piece of red yarn to tie around the end of the ramrod to remind me not to use the ramrod. Powder was distributed in small paper packets and the packets were not to be part of the load. We just dropped them on the ground.

As an extra in a movie once, the director wanted several muskets to be fired in unison. One of the people from the prop department poured a powder charge into each musket used and primed the pans. We were not allowed to have black powder or round ball with us while on the set. Powder horns were checked to be sure they were empty.

 

[Whitworth]

Once in the famous Rosensteel collection in Gettysburg and now in the possession of the N.P.S. is small section of tree stump maybe 4-5 in diameter with a ramrod protruding about equally on either side. The story attached with is it was fired by a Confederate and it passed thru the body of a Yankee Capt. lodging in a sapling. The Capt. survived his wound and later returned to the spot and cut down the tree and donated it to Rosensteel for his famous collection, known thru out the country. A picture of it is on page 95 of "The Illustrated History Of American Civil War Relics" by Slyvia and O'Donnell.

 

[andy52]

I attended a reenactment at Martin Station in Western Virginia several years ago and they were pretty safety-conscious. The head honcho inspected my flintlock and gave me a small piece of red yarn to tie around the end of the ramrod to remind me not to use the ramrod. Powder was distributed in small paper packets and the packets were not to be part of the load. We just dropped them on the ground.

I remember the first re-enactment I participated in, it was a early USA engagement in St. Charles Mo.
We were engaging a group of French that had captured some civilians. In that one they did make use remove our ramrods before hand and gave use paper loads to use. We were being fired on by troops and cannon. I kinda' took it for real and was laying behind a log firing when the head guy taps me on the shoulder as says "Don't aim at them!" I looked at him like "What?" he said aim over their heads we don't want them to think we're actually shooting at them...

 

[Buck Conner]

A friend has the dubious honor of shooting not one, but two ramrods downrange. He never found the first rod but he did recover the second ramrod. It was so badly bent that it was unusable.

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The first was a test and what was the second one, must have been "I can't believe I did that" ???

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[Grenadier1758]

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Boy that would be exciting, what was the purpose of the packet other than a reminder?

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The purpose of the paper packet of powder was to control the amount of powder that was being used for each blank load. I've been to many reenactments where even the Native reenactors have to use paper cartridges. Part of that is by using only their cartridges, they are somewhat assured that there won't be any projectiles used. When my unit does the inventory of cartridges, all cartridges are removed from the cartridge boxes to be sure that there are no ball and powder loads. We do shoot live rounds at the live fire Woods Walks. We pool our live rounds and after the live fire portion, we remove all the cartridges with ball and these go into storage for the next opportunity for live fire. Not all units treat their ammunition that way, but we do.

 

[Buck Conner]

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Interesting, have never seen that before and I have been doing black powder, reenactment, living history for 40-50 years. I can see why if you don't know some that are taking part in your event.

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[andy52]

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Interesting, have never seen that before and I have been doing black powder, reenactment, living history for 40-50 years. I can see why if you don't know some that are taking part in your event.


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grenadier1758 operates as a military unit unlike me which is more a rag tag militia unit. He wants to be able to out shoot the Frenchie's.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I've seen the "shooting the ramrod" at an enemy when no time to remove in several movies and old shows. It is almost a cliché in muzzleloading era based entertainment.

 

[sportster73hp]

I got distracted at the range one day and shot my ramrod at the 25 yard target. Good hit in the black and shattered rod. Still have two small pieces to remember the day

 

[William Lincoln]

Near my place in Florida they re-enact the battle of Natural Bridge. They had rods but
it was no lead allowed PERIOD.

 

[GomezMunoz1951]

One of the things stressed when shooting blanks during a re-enactment if your use the rod to tamp a paper wad make sure and remove it. I've even seen some where they collect all the rods from the participants and only shoot loose powder.

Back in the 1980's when I was an extra on The George Washington Miniseries, all of us used trapdoor rifles with a fake flintlock welded on. We were issued our .45-70 blank and they came and loaded the guns for us, after we fired, they collected the blank brass. I managed to keep one of the live blanks when they had loaded my gun and then later had me fall dead so I never got to shoot. Only the guys who got close-ups used real flintlocks and the guns were loaded for them. They were told NOT to touch the ramrod. For the hand to hand rubber flintlocks were used... They were very safety conscious... when we put the bayonet on, the scabbard was left on so no one got stabbed. Again, for closeups rubber bayonets were used....

I have been lucky I have never fired my ramrod but I did over load my .58 rifle once. I was talking and forgot to count how much powder I had loaded. I had left my regular measure home so had to use a smaller one for my revolver. I lost count, I was normally putting 3 measures in but got sidetracked. I added a couple more and when I fired, it knocked me over and I ended up with a black and blue bruise from my elbow to my shoulder. After that I paid close attention to what I was doing.

 

[vintovka]

I have heard the distinctive sounds of a ramrods being fired down range, The metal one made an odd whipping sound and was bent when found. The wood ones seemed to whoosh and then disintegrate in to splinted and sharps when it hit against the metal target frame,

 

[Bad Jack]

Back in the 50’s I saw a movie where a good guy, in a cabin, was frantically loading his muzzleloader as fast as he could because a bad guy was breaking in the door. I don’t remember if it was a smooth bore or rifle. The bad guy broke in just as the good guy was ramming the ball down the barrel. Without removing the ramrod from the barrel, the good guy pointed the weapon, ramrod and all, at the bad guy and puller the trigger. The ramrod impaled the bad guy and he died.

Is this scenario possible? Just wondering.

When guns first began to see use in medieval Europe the projectiles where often a form of arrow . "it will Keal!"

 

[vintovka]

Fletching might help them from hitting the target sideways, Might be tough to reload however.

 

[chix2111]

I was shooting in a match with my Leman Trade Rifle .45. It was a hot and heavy competition and our club was shooting against the USMC guard guys from Keyport sub base. I would stuff a patched round ball down and just set the ramrod aside rather than put it back in the thimbles for the shot. On the last shot of the 25 yard offhand match I didn't notice the ramrod was without the brass end and jag, until I went to the target and found a .45 round hole and a horizontal 4" hole right beside it. I have no doubt that would have been lethal even without the hickory.

 

[GREENSWLDE]

A lot of years ago at the Old Wedgnock range I arrive to find a friend walking down the 300yd range hunting in the grass. He had been working up a load for his New P-H Whitworth and managed to shoot his ram rod. We found it about 100yds down range. It had taken the form of the rifling. Looked like a very long cork screw. The chap,long gone was famous for making M/L equipment,particularly Drum Cappers. OLD DOG..

 

[LawrenceA]

Yes it is possible.
I know of a guy who was shot with a ramrod except the ramrod shattered on impact. He survived but was really messed up.
There is a thread on here that shows a guy who shot himself through the head.
Sorry don't remember the name of the thread.

As previously mentioned guns have been used to fire arrows. the first guns were cannons that fired arrows.

 

[MSW]

My late father described accidentally firing a ramrod (and ball) at a deer. The ramrod went flying and missed the deer, as did the ball. His description of the resultant recoil was quite graphic

 

[Melchi577]

back in 1994 i did a single event with a English civil war group at Helmsley castle, a musketeer managed to shoot one of the cavalry in the chest with a wooden ramrod the guy survived ok despite some idiot removing the ramrod when the ambulance arrived.
Following this the group I'm with now The Sealed Knot) tried a no wadding/ramming but this caused more problems with unburnt powder & burns etc (possibly due to the larger bores) so now the ramrod channels are open far enough down so that as you present you can have a finger on the rod before you fire, you are trained to do this and monitored to make sure it happens.

 

[3 trees]

In the late 70s or early 80s on a deer hunt with friends I witnessed a ramrod shot. 2 of us walking along a logging road shot at a doe in muzzleloader season. My buddy was beside me and had just rammed a Buffalo Bullet down the barrel when a racked buck popped up on the trail the doe had been on. My partner ran his ramrod down the barren instead of the thimbuls, without realizing it. Capes gun raised it and fired it!! The ramrod hit the deer and knocked it down!!! I finished reloading a round ball and we walked over to where the deer had been hit and there was tons of hair on the snow, and slivers of ramrod!! At this point we realized he had shot his ramrod!!! We where able to trail that buck in the snow for several 100 yards... never a drop of blood and we often joked that if anyone shot that deer he wood look like he had been beat with a hickory ramrod!!!