Is it uncool to use Pyrodex?

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TFoley

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A 5 or 6 hour drive is expensive. OK if you have nothing better to do and enjoy the outing. Otherwise it is cheaper to pay the hazmat fee and get a few pounds delivered to your door.

If I drove East for six hours I'd be about forty miles on my way to Belgium, and likely drowning.

If I drove West for six hours I'd be well on my way to Ireland, but still drowning.
 
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If I drove East for six hours I'd be about forty miles on my way to Belgium, and likely drowning.

If I drove West for six hours I'd be well on my way to Ireland, but still drowning.
I’ve never been to Europe. Have been to Australia, and like America is wide open spaces.
It is funny for an American to think about. This weekend I going about three hours to an event, just about the middle of tge state. That would be near half way across your country.
When I meet Europeans who are here for the first time the size is about the first thing they comment on.
 
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Let's be clear here. You're satisfied with 16 hits out of 20 shots at a 24" square chunk of steel at 100yd.

I'm 64 with astigmatism and wear glasses and that level of performance would have me looking into what's going wrong.

100yds with a beat up Parker Hale musketoon, my cast RCBS Hogdon minies and REAL black powder- 3f Old Eynsford (a Goex product)
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My Dog,s better than your Dog....My Dog,s better than yours....my Dog,s better cause he eats Kennel Ration....my Dog,s better than yours,,,,
My original post was surrounding the fact that some have said on here that reenactor powder was strictly for reenacting. For me it worked in this capacity. For the most part it would have brought home a Deer and that,s what counts. Never have I used a Stand to hunt from always ground hunted blending in with my surroundings. I have had Deer come in 10-15 yards away so long shots never required. Whatever works for you..fine..enjoy it. SM.
 
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dave951

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My Dog,s better than your Dog....My Dog,s better than yours....my Dog,s better cause he eats Kennel Ration....my Dog,s better than yours,,,,
My original post was surrounding the fact that some have said on here that reenactor powder was strictly for reenacting. For me it worked in this capacity. For the most part it would have brought home a Deer and that,s what counts. Never have I used a Stand to hunt from always ground hunted blending in with my surroundings. I have had Deer come in 10-15 yards away so long shots never required. Whatever works for you..fine..enjoy it. SM.
I'm going down this path for a reason. First off, for any evaluation to have meaning, there must be standards. By that I mean any conversation on accuracy must have a measurable, quantifiable, repeatable method to measure accuracy and with that standard, you now have a gauge to determine and rank the effect of powder, cap, ball, patch, lube, etc. In simplest terms, what is documented to work best. Being able to hit a chunk of steel, while intrinsically satisfying, is not a good way to measure. Being able to harvest a deer, again, that can be done with a spear or a well placed thrown rock and not a way to quantify and rank results. Folks gush about Fadallah's book but all he's done is write a book on exactly what I'm getting at.

So is Pdex uncool? Not really. And by saying that, I know that there are folks getting good accuracy out of it with repeatable results and use it in many situations. Same can be said about using corrosive primers in centerfire cartridges but the cost of wear on the equipment is one thing that cannot be discounted with either. Will I use it? NO. I have used it a couple times from it's release, it has documented fouling and corrosion problems and I'm still not a convert. Of the subs, I prefer T7 but having a solid, steady source of the real deal, I'd be very hard pressed to switch. If you like Pdex, have at it, it relieves the supply pressure on those of us who use real black powder.
 
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ALL I am saying is.....if one wants to take things to the level of splitting hairs...so be it. Enjoy yourselves. Pyrodex or Holy Black. My concerns are very simple.....Load...aim .....Shoot....hit target. So what if im not tripping over Ribbons and Trophys in my Den area. I get out of it exactly what I want to. Now moving on....
 
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Listening to a podcast yesterday an apparently famous competition shooter in the East somewhere was being interviewed, and at the mention of Pyrodex he and the interviewer both snorted as if using Pyrodex is akin to wearing white after Labor Day. I'm not a Pyrodex enthusiast, but when I got back into muzzleloading it's all I could find locally. I prefer Swiss, and eventually found some.
What propellent do the Kardashians use?
I think they mostly burn cash.
 

ryoung14

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I'm old school. When I started in BP all I could get was Pyrodex at the local tractor supply store. It's always done well so I stuck with it. Recently had to get real BP for my 1st flinter. Found I preferred the Pyrodex smell; didn't see any difference in cleaning or shooting...other than a pound of Black disappears faster.

On reflection, I see one real advantage to Pyrodex: In percussion revolvers Pyrodex, due to its higher ignition temperature, should be much more resistant to chain-fires that originate from the front of the cylinder. The fact that it needs a strong spark to get started should make front-of-cylinder chain fires unlikely. Of course rear-of-cylinder chain fires that set off the cap will still occur.
 

TFoley

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I’ve never been to Europe. Have been to Australia, and like America is wide open spaces.
It is funny for an American to think about. This weekend I going about three hours to an event, just about the middle of tge state. That would be near half way across your country.
When I meet Europeans who are here for the first time the size is about the first thing they comment on.

Up there in Canada we think that the USA is pretty compact, with your roads to everywhere........ ;) If my cuz makes a right off his front porch, then around 400 miles later he'll hit James Bay, the little bit that hangs off the bottom of Hudson Bay. Between his porch and the ice-cold water, there is zero made by Man, nor even a sight of it. Last time we drove across Canada, it took two good days of driving to get from the Manitoba border to our home location, near Trenton ON.

I can't dispute the fact that the UK is pretty small, and nowhere in England is further than around 80 miles or so from the sea.
 
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I'm going down this path for a reason. First off, for any evaluation to have meaning, there must be standards. By that I mean any conversation on accuracy must have a measurable, quantifiable, repeatable method to measure accuracy and with that standard, you now have a gauge to determine and rank the effect of powder, cap, ball, patch, lube, etc. In simplest terms, what is documented to work best. Being able to hit a chunk of steel, while intrinsically satisfying, is not a good way to measure. Being able to harvest a deer, again, that can be done with a spear or a well placed thrown rock and not a way to quantify and rank results. Folks gush about Fadallah's book but all he's done is write a book on exactly what I'm getting at.

So is Pdex uncool? Not really. And by saying that, I know that there are folks getting good accuracy out of it with repeatable results and use it in many situations. Same can be said about using corrosive primers in centerfire cartridges but the cost of wear on the equipment is one thing that cannot be discounted with either. Will I use it? NO. I have used it a couple times from it's release, it has documented fouling and corrosion problems and I'm still not a convert. Of the subs, I prefer T7 but having a solid, steady source of the real deal, I'd be very hard pressed to switch. If you like Pdex, have at it, it relieves the supply pressure on those of us who use real black powder.
Your taking one aspect of the sport and saying all else isn’t worthy.
Let us say that a gun shot it’s best groups with 65 grains 3f GOex. Is this optimal compared to Swiss that tends to be a little hotter, or elephant that’s lower.
Experimentation in a double blind study may reveal that even shooting the same MV the GO does best, ie smallest groups at a given range.
Now I’m hard pressed to believe that if your best groups come at an average of 1650 fps the ball cares if it got there on top of Swiss or elephant or P. However, internal ballistics count, so acceleration ease of ignition and so on can make a difference.
Let us say that real powder can result in 25 % smaller groups at one hundred yards, is that the only consideration.
It is if that’s your game. Off hand, bench, woods walk or formal small groups is an advantage, but only in a formal match will that 25% count.
I shoot flintlocks. Big ‘slow’ French trade, smaller ‘faster’ silar German. That’s inferior to late British locks. The Penultimate ml locks. To improve on these one had to go to percussion
Seen from an outlook of ‘faster’ the late English is the best. But you can’t put an Egg on a early style Brown Bess or. Transitional style rifle.
A small group can be a qualifier for best, but only if that’s what your looking for.
P is cheaper, and easier to get. I want black but recognize needs. One doesn’t settle for less by shooting a 25% bigger group if it serves your needs.
I’m pretty sure I would improve my shooting if I put modern sights on my rifle, but that wouldn’t fit my needs.
Cost is important
Availability is important
Storage is important
Service is important.
And with v, silver blade and 65 year old eyes I could never get the very smallest groups my gun can produce
And no it’s not harder to clean p over holy. It is your responsibility to care for your gun, you can’t blame rust on any one but your self.
 
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I don't understand all the hating on Pyrodex... I've used it for years and my bore still looks great!
2013-03-24_14-28-04_899 (1).jpg
 
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And that looks different then a poorly cared for gun that only shot black how?
I'm just goofing around! I looked up a picture of a badly rusted muzzleloader and decided to be sarcastic about how ridiculous some of these statements are from guys that think it just destroys your gun even if you clean it well. I stated several pages back that I've used Pyrodex successfully and have no problem with it.
 
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If it works it is waaaay cool. These days beggars can't be choosers when trying to find a propellant for our smoke poles. The closest black powder retailer near me is about 5 hours away and the price is out of control with hazmat fees and shipping. I still place my order when I can afford it, but it get's tougher every year.
 

toot

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and BEAUTY IS ONLY SKIN DEEP, BUT UGLY GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE BONE! jmho.
 

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