Input needed on resto

[Kentuckyjed]

I picked up this .40 caliber rifle it has a Douglas barrel and a Hamm lock and everything is good. I was told it was possibly built back in the 1970's. Where the barrel pins go, the previous builder made brass oval covers and inlet them into the stock over the barrel pin hole. They used some type of epoxy or acraglass to affix to the wood stock. One of these ovals was lost over the years and I could see if it was just glued on how over time and shooting it could loosen and fall off. I would rather not have to put these back so I am looking for any other ideas to remedy the divots left by the ovals which are around 1/16th in thickness. I don't really want to put any wood filler in but have thought about sanding and or slightly carving the epoxy out and having slight indentions down the length of the stock on both sides. I have disassembled the entire rifle and have sanded the stock down and it looks totally different with beautiful curly maple in heavy curl. I will try and post some pictures of the sanded stock, but here are some pics of the rifle before any work was started. Any ideas or remedies would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Reshape the cheek piece.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Now would be the time to replace any missing oval inlays too.

 

[Kentuckyjed]

Thanks Comfortably Numb.
What would be the cheekpiece re-shape? Kind of wanted to get rid of the ovals but can make another one.

 

[Kentuckyjed]

Would anyone know what style rifle this might be a copy of, if any? Lehigh, Bucks, Etc.

 

[rchas]

The patchbox looks vaguely like a lehigh valley style, but the stock is just a stock--it has no relation in shape to any school.

I am sure it is a good shooter, but the stock shaping was done by someone who was working only from pictures. It's adequate, and is a good attempt for a first rifle. It looks like the builder left plenty of wood if you wanted to reshape the cheekpiece (as Comfortably Numb suggests), the lock panels, wrist and forearm to a more period correct appearance. It depends on much you want to get into it.

To match the missing oval inlay, lay a piece of masking tape over the hole, press it in and mark the edge of the inlet with a pencil. Take the tape off the rifle and put it on your brass sheet for a pattern.

 

[Flintandsteel]

There is no resemblance to ANY Lehigh rifle.
Also, there is enough wood left on EVERY part of that stock to reshape, AND get rid of those barrel inlays if you wish.

 

[Kentuckyjed]

Yeah, the barrel pin inlays strike me as odd that they were glued in, would that have been done or would there even had been barrel pin inlays back in the day or is it just builder's preference. Trying to make it somewhat correct for the era but have no issues with personal preferences either. What would the cheekpiece issue be and how would it be better dealt with?

 

[SOLANCO]

Glad you got that old finish off. Not a fan of those brass ovals. I would try to replace them with stainable veneer, or just remove them and sand smooth.

 

[rchas]

What would the cheekpiece issue be and how would it be better dealt with?

I think the best explanation of shaping a buttstock is in Buchele's "Recreating the American Longrifle". he has an illustration that perfectly explains the shape of the butt and cheekpiece. I'll try my best in words... think of the outside of both sides of the buttstock as convex sections of cones. The cheekpiece is a concave section of cone laid into one side of the buttstock. The cheek piece is not flat (like it is shaped on your stock) but curved starting at the tip of the comb back about 3/4 of the way of the stock. Where the two cones intersect you will see a curved line going from the cheekpiece to the buttplate. Some builders emphasize that intersection more than others.

 

[Kentuckyjed]

Ok, so to correct the cheekpiece I would need to start from about 3/4" or so at the comb and make it more concave, effectively removing the inlay of the North Star that is there now and bring the concave to a more pointed arch and putting more of an angle on each side more than 125 degrees as opposed to what it is currently. similar to the Brooks in the attachment from rchas. I like the way that looks compared to what I have currently.
Thanks

 

[Kentuckyjed]

Here are some pics of the sanded stock with the last one where I started to modify the cheekpiece. Still working on the cheekpiece, any suggestions.

 

[Eric Krewson]

Your lock and side plate panels have way too much wood under them and need to be defined. That beaver tail has to be reshaped or be gone as well.

More like this. I am a wood hack; others make much more appealing lock panels than I do but this will give you an idea.

Same rifle, lock plate side.

 

[waksupi]

If you would whittle away all the wood that doesn't need to be there, a rifle is probably hidden there.

 

[Kentuckyjed]

Your lock and side plate panels have way too much wood under them and need to be defined. That beaver tail has to be reshaped or be gone as well.

More like this. I am a wood hack; others make much more appealing lock panels than I do but this will give you an idea.View attachment 198465

Same rifle, lock plate side.

View attachment 198466

I guess I would have to sand the lock and side plate faces down? I do not want to affect the lock inlet if at all possible. I can thin out and define the beavertail more, is it the angle or is it just too fat looking?
Thanks

 

[rchas]

The cheekpiece is much improved, but too long. I found Buchele's illustration, it should help you visualize what you're trying for.

On 2 d pictures, lock panels look like they are carved in, but they are actually formed by the edges of 3 planes: The lock panel itself,and the top and bottom of the stock. The edge should be clearly defined. The lock panel mouldings are carved into the top and bottom planes. The mouldings are shallow, a 1/32 to no more than 1/16 relief.

 

[Eric Krewson]

Don't touch the face of the lock inlet, just shape the wood outside it, don't reduce the thickness of the lock panel at all, it appears your lock depth is just where it is supposed to be, right at the bevel of the lock plate.

The beaver tail and the tail of the lock molding should point towards the center of the wrist, yours has a dog leg downward, use a pencil to outline its shape to point it the right way, you have plenty of wood to work with. Never cut wood without making a pencil line first, your initial lock molding was freehanded by the builder without being drawn on first, that is why it is so awkward.

Shape the lock side first, then, using your lock bolts to establish position make a rubbing to transfer to the side plate side.

transferred to the side plate side, I glued the rubbing to a piece of poster board to make solid pattern to for the side plate side.

I use an old compass with the point removed to mark even lock panels, I draw them out all the same around the lock and then free hand lines for the nose and tail of the lock. I have already drawn in the bottom molding line. I am reshaping the lock panels on a TC in this picture.

After you draw the bottom line, you want to shape the wood below the line in a slope to your trigger guard inlet like this;

This was my pre-carve from hell rifle, you can see the wood I had to glue in to fill the lock inlet so I could move the lock up to where it needed to be. This is the same rifle That I posted above with the close up of a finished rifle lock. The glue line only shows at the nose and tail of the lock but it goes all the way from front to back under the lock.

You want to feather out this flat cut to a round transition to the wrist and forearm at the nose and tail of the lock.

 

[Eric Krewson]

Another thing; Your builder used a V gouge to cut that DEEP outline around the lock, this deep cut needs to be muted and softened, it may be too deep to do much with at the tail of the lock. Above the lock you need to slope the wood from the tang to the lock molding to get rid of the line or most of it if you can.

This is my first gun, I thought I needed to cut a defining line around the lock and it looks like do-do;

I compared my first gun to some of the good work members do here and changed up my lock panel shaping on future guns.

This is what I went to, softer, less definition.

This picture shows how the wood should be shaped from the tang to the lock and side panel.

 

[Kentuckyjed]

Another thing; Your builder used a V gouge to cut that DEEP outline around the lock, this deep cut needs to be muted and softened, it may be too deep to do much with at the tail of the lock. Above the lock you need to slope the wood from the tang to the lock molding to get rid of the line or most of it if you can.

This is my first gun, I thought I needed to cut a defining line around the lock and it looks do-do;

View attachment 199128

I compared my first gun to some of the good work members do here and changed up my lock panel shaping on future guns.

This is what I went to, softer, less definition.

View attachment 199129

This picture shows how the wood should be shaped from the tang to the lock and side panel.

View attachment 199130

Thanks Eric, you have helped a lot. I have changed up and followed your advice. I found that there was a crack in the lock face and it didn't take much to break it off, it has since been repaired. I am trying to make the definition a little softer as well and for the barrel pin ovals I decided to go with antler oval inlays instead of the brass. The cheekpiece is a lot better but probably still too big for some but I like it much better than what was there when I started. I will try and keep al posted on the progress. I will hopefully be finishing this up by next weekend.