Information about BP measures.

[Rifleman1776]

For that type of powder measure there is no need for perzactness. If yer rifle wants 72.5 grains on the bench at the range, it's intended target in the field won't care if you are using 80 gr. or 65 gr. They can be made approximate. I have made several in what could be half or one third charges and the shooter counts wat he wants. e.g. one dump for squirrels, two dumps for deer, etc. If a measure is made that holds more than the shooter wants a wad of tissue or beeswax at the bottom can fix that.

 

[Two Feathers]

For that type of powder measure there is no need for perzactness. If yer rifle wants 72.5 grains on the bench at the range, it's intended target in the field won't care if you are using 80 gr. or 65 gr. They can be made approximate. I have made several in what could be half or one third charges and the shooter counts wat he wants. e.g. one dump for squirrels, two dumps for deer, etc. If a measure is made that holds more than the shooter wants a wad of tissue or beeswax at the bottom can fix that.

Thank you Rifleman1776
I make mine perzact. If I say it's 100 grains to the top then it's 100 gr.s to the top. Maybe (from what you say) that's overkill, but I like things precise, sorry.
I'm working on some new design (to me) ball blocks. They're pretty conceptual, and NOT my design, but they work gooder than the conventional ball blocks, (bullet boards) available out there.
Two Feathers

 

[Coot]

smo
I looked all over and found NOTHING about Clay Smith and tin powder measures? I did find out all about his guns and knives, but nothing about his tin powder measures?
Thank you:
Two Feathers


E]
Google "Clay Smith Guns". He is a retired Colonial Williamsburg Master Gunsmith. Look at his website - the tin measures are under "Trade Blanket" items.

 

[Two Feathers]

smo
Thanks, just checked these out...neat? Seems like a lot of work for 4 bucks?
Two Feathers

 

[longcruise]

A friend at Fort Frederick sells powder chargers (some folks use the term "charger" for what a lot of us call a "fixed measure"...meaning it doesn't adjust to other settings). The chargers are made from turkey wingbones. He fashions a plug for one end.

Some folks make them as mentioned, from 50 to 90 grains or so. My friend Danny, makes them also in 25 to 45 sizes in 5 grain increments. As one response mentioned some folks like to do a charge for targets, and one for hunting.

I, on the other hand, have a 30 grain charger from a deer antler for my .40, because 30 grains is plenty for squirrels and rabbits and groundhogs, but I'm required to use at least 60 grains if I go hunting deer. So in the latter case, I'd simply double the powder load, and go for deer.

LD

Apparently some of the western fur trade rifles have discovered accompanied by smallish measures for caliber. The assumption is that two charges were used but half charges an option.

 

[Two Feathers]

I get that concept. When I shot competitive BP with my .45 cal. Kentucky Long flinter, I never used more that 40 grains of powder for paper targets, however, when it came to that steel Buffalo gong at 300 yards, then the ante went up to 70 grains. No need to "kill" paper.
Two feathers

 

[Grenadier1758]

Thank you Rifleman1776
I make mine perzact. If I say it's 100 grains to the top then it's 100 gr.s to the top. Maybe (from what you say) that's overkill, but I like things precise, sorry.
I'm working on some new design (to me) ball blocks. They're pretty conceptual, and NOT my design, but they work gooder than the conventional ball blocks, (bullet boards) available out there.
Two Feathers

100 grains with perzactly what powder? 2fg or 3fg? GOEX, Olde Eynsford, Swiss, Scheutzen or ? These powders all have different densities so that the volume measure that throws 100 grains of 2fg Goex will measure a weight of about 107 grains of 3fg GOEX or 72 grains of Pyrodex R.

 

[Two Feathers]

Grenadier1758
Thanks. I use Goex 3FFF for all my powder measure calibrations.
I know Goex 2FF will give a slightly lesser combustion, (which I don't think matters that much as far as accuracy goes), but I did it because the guy I built the .50 cal. flintlock rifle for, is a newbie, and I was concerned for his welfare/safety. I figured this way....NO confusion with 2 different powders, 2FF for the main charge and 4FFFF for the pan. Now there's NO chance that he can get turned around and dump the 4FFFF down the barrel. Thanks for bringing that up. Hopefully my poor explanation will make sense?
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[Grenadier1758]

Two Feathers,
Really its not that big a deal. If you make your measure for exactly 100 (or 70 or 85) grains of 3fg GOEX, the differences are slight. I have seen many a measure or charger on a trade blanket marked for a specific grain weight and no one is noted for the what powder it is calibrated for. My adjustable powder measures are allegedly calibrated for 2fg GOEX (?) but it up to me to make the actual determination. I have found with my six or seven adjustable measures that If they are set on 100 grains, the actual grain weight will vary from 98 to 104 on my weight measure. As stated in other postings once can add a drop of hard wax to take up some volume and make the charger throw the desired weight.

 

[Two Feathers]

Grenadier1758
Thanks. My thoughts exactly. I do make sure that mine are exact, Based on an adjustable Brass powder measure from TC that I bought in 1977, but as you said, it's a matter of what brand of powder one uses. I've just always used Goex. I love it. To me it's the ONLY true Black worth what you pay for it. Just my opinion.
I have one here that I'll be listing soon. It's made of an Elk antler brow tine. It has a pour spout built in. If you fill it to the top of the round part of the hole it's "ZACKERLY" 60 grains. If you fill it to the exact top flush, it's 63 grains!? Thanks again:
Two Feathers

 

[George]

Grenadier1758
I do make sure that mine are exact, Based on an adjustable Brass powder measure from TC that I bought in 1977,...

Have you ever checked the calibration of your adjustable measure? If not, you might be surprised how far off the actual weights it is.

Spence

 

[Walkingeagle]

Have you ever checked the calibration of your adjustable measure? If not, you might be surprised how far off the actual weights it is.

Spence

I have checked the calibration of my old adjustable measure and it is bang on with Goex 2fg. This is the measure I use to build my fixed measures off as my volumetric with everything afterwards.
Walk

 

[Two Feathers]

Have you ever checked the calibration of your adjustable measure? If not, you might be surprised how far off the actual weights it is.

Spence

Hi Spence
Thank you for your input. Ironically, I had never checked it , UNTIL, yesterday after one of these comments. I have 2 measures. A plastic tube type with graduated markings on it, that I just bought last year, and the Brass adjustable one from TC that I bought back in '77. Just for the heck of it (yesterday) I filled the adj. one to 50 grains, and dumped it into the graduated plastic one. IDENTICAL same measurement, 50 grains. NOW..that's NOT to say that can't BOTH be off? But I figure it's dang near impossible for them to BOTH be exactly the same and be wrong!?
I have an electronic scale that measures in Grains, grams, and pounds/ounces. Maybe I should check my tube measures using that?

Hey Walk...nice to hear from you, and thanks for weighing in on this. And thank you to everyone for their input and comments.
Have a good one guys:
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[Mark Herman]

When I make them I always make it larger than necessary. You can reduce he volume easily by filling the bottom with wax. Let a lit candle drip in and tamp it good. If you want more volume the wax is easily removed.

 

[Two Feathers]

Thanks Mark
I have no problem getting them right on the money, but it's good to know there's a back up plan if I DO screw one up.. I have more problems with getting thin spots because I bored too close to the edge farther down inside the antler? Although, I've never had one break through. Knock on wood.
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[longcruise]

I have an electronic scale that measures in Grains, grams, and pounds/ounces. Maybe I should check my tube measures using that?

Yes, you do need to do that. In my experiments making powder measures i found that pouring from one measure to another doesn't give an accurate number. It's related to how the powder compacts as it is poured from different containers.

Without further explanation, I can only repeat, check them with an accurate scale. You will find that the one you poured into and credited with being the same will actually be less. Of course it's more noticeable as the settings increase.

While you have all this stuff layed out in front of you, try this; use a measure with a built in shear or use a card to shear the measure even with the top. Throw ten measures on the scale and average them. Now take the same measure and pour it heaping then tap the side of the measure about five times. Shear it off and weigh it. Repeat exactly for ten weights and average those.

Two things will jump out. One is that the tapped charges will be a little heavier. The other is that the extreme spread high to low will be less with the tapped charges.

Knowing this, I don't tap my measures even during a match. It probably makes no difference. At least to not to me.

The bit about pouring difference is handy if making your own measure. When I develop a hunting or accuracy load i use an adjustable measure. To make a dedicated measure for that load, I weigh the charge the adjustable range measure throws and make the dedicated measure to throw the exact same weight.

I have posted this stuff before and it always lights up the "traditional" minded who eschew any technical information and end up accused of "weighing charges". Go figger.

 

[Two Feathers]

longcruise

Yes, you do need to do that. In my experiments making powder measures i found that pouring from one measure to another doesn't give an accurate number. It's related to how the powder compacts as it is poured from different containers.

Without further explanation, I can only repeat, check them with an accurate scale. You will find that the one you poured into and credited with being the same will actually be less. Of course it's more noticeable as the settings increase.

While you have all this stuff layed out in front of you, try this; use a measure with a built in shear or use a card to shear the measure even with the top. Throw ten measures on the scale and average them. Now take the same measure and pour it heaping then tap the side of the measure about five times. Shear it off and weigh it. Repeat exactly for ten weights and average those.

Two things will jump out. One is that the tapped charges will be a little heavier. The other is that the extreme spread high to low will be less with the tapped charges.

Knowing this, I don't tap my measures even during a match. It probably makes no difference. At least to not to me.

The bit about pouring difference is handy if making your own measure. When I develop a hunting or accuracy load i use an adjustable measure. To make a dedicated measure for that load, I weigh the charge the adjustable range measure throws and make the dedicated measure to throw the exact same weight.

I have posted this stuff before and it always lights up the "traditional" minded who eschew any technical information and end up accused of "weighing charges". Go figger.

longcruise:
Thanks for the tip. I feel that all of this newfound information is a bit disconcerting?
I understand the "NEED" for exactness, but I feel that some of this is REALLY overkill. I think that my 60 grain measure will throw something sooo close to 60 grains that NO ONE will ever notice any accuracy issues. I have never been at a point where shooting 1/16" low at 50 yards meant the difference between a kill, or a wounded deer? I'm not loading Match loads, where .001 of a grain will make or break me.
I certainly appreciate you taking the time to explain this, but I think I'll stick with making measures based on my current process?
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[Grenadier1758]

I've done the same test. I can confirm your results with the adjustable measures. The tapped charge will weigh more. Each measure, even if set to the same setting, will throw a slightly different weight. The larger diameter measures will settle better so the tapped weight is more than if you tapped a smaller diameter measure.

 

[FishDFly]

Make your measures as you have done, you do nice work.

Folks worry way tooooo much.

 

[longcruise]

Wasn't suggesting that you do things differently. Just passing on info to you and our other members. I think folks who buy your measures are looking for something with aesthetics and probably are perfectly happy with the shooting results.