In praise of swabbing between shots

[leam]

Not a lot of shooting today, but an interesting event. My first three shots blew a single ragged hole in the paper plate. The next three were stacked about six inches top to bottom. I noticed a very tight pull on the jag at the furthest one third of the barrel. I thought I had been swabbing well between shots but I guess not.

Since this was only at 25 yards I'm more believing it was the increased friction than wind or even trigger monkey error. The rifle was on a stand and I'm not that bad of a shot.

 

[coloradoclyde]

What caliber? what are you swabbing with?

Guess you'll have to see what the next range session does.... :hmm:

 

[leam]

Targets

 

[coloradoclyde]

That is significant....Next range session I would try to duplicate it....then try to correct it....

Many times I've done a quick cleaning in the middle of hunting or a shooting session...Not that much more involved than swabbing between shots.

Often I have slipped out the back door to decrease the chipmunk population, and I clean after every shot not knowing if I will get another that day. Then my gun is loaded and ready for the next opportunity.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

Leam,

The fouling effects gas sealing more than friction. Observe the spent shooting patch.

Consistency shot to shot is also amount of cleaning agent and shooting lube on shooting patch.

The fouling effects patch thickness and depth of the lands.

Using the same cleaning patches every time makes for consistent shooting.

Also, making a custom jag from a larger one sanded down makes for consistent cleanin between shots.

This time of year is funny with fouling.

 

[Cowboy]

Leam,

The fouling effects gas sealing more than friction. Observe the spent shooting patch.

Consistency shot to shot is also amount of cleaning agent and shooting lube on shooting patch.

The fouling effects patch thickness and depth of the lands.

Using the same cleaning patches every time makes for consistent shooting.

I agree! Being consistent is the key. Same cleaning patches, same cleaning solution, want the bore in the same condition for each and every shot made. Everything that you can think of being the same each and everytime. If still having problems with accuracy, then adjust one thing and shoot some more. Continue to adjust different things but one thing and shoot to achieve tight groups and if it didn't work, move on to another thing. You will eventually narrow it down and will know what works best for that particular rifle. Respectfully, Cowboy :thumbsup:

 

[fleener]

do you normally shoot at such a big target at 25 yards? could your sight picture of been different for the second group?

Try a smaller target, something more appropriate for 25 yards, pay attention to your sight picture.

Fleener

 

[Rifleman1776]

Consistency is simply having a routine that works for you and doing it every shot. To me, that means the barrel should be consistent for every shot. My routine is to swab between every shot using a cotton flannel patch dampened with saliva. Note: dampened, not slobbered on soaking wet. That would be a no-no. :nono:

 

[coloradoclyde]

do you normally shoot at such a big target at 25 yards?

Fleener

Excellent observation.... :hatsoff: :thumbsup:

 

[Bill Goins]

Comparing targets, the bottom target has two shots matching the group and location of the three shots on the top target. But the bottom target has that third shot as a flier...

I think you need to shoot a few more rounds at the very least before you start fixing things. Best of luck!

 

[coloradoclyde]

Another great observation.... :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

Illustrates why I never shoot 3 shot groups....5 is my minimum...

 

[azmntman]

I will shoot 3 or even 2 once in awhile, if the 2-3 hit where I wanted I will take a break and return later for another 2-3 shot group for final confirmation. I always "sight-in" in two outings to make sure the eyes were correct the first time.

So for deer season I will grab the selected rifle, shoot 2-3 shots at bull. If they are on Im done, then just plink at spots, tree knots stumps etc. If the sights need tweaking I will tweak once, shoot 2-3 and if they hit where I want I will come back one more time. And repeat. Works for me.

Now for a new gun I will shoot 5 the first group, same for "dutching" in a gun with "the system". Once the guns sighted I refer back to 2-3 shots.

Have not had to tweak much though. Once sighted in they seem to stay that way. :idunno:

 

[Billnpatti]

It would be more than presumptious of me to speak for Dutch but I think if he chimes in on this thread, he will likely tell you that providing that your between shot swabbing is consistent, the vertical stringing is likely due to not having your patches consistently lubricated. Inconsistency in lubrication of your patches can cause what you are seeing.

I am right on this aren't I Dutch?

 

[leam]

Longish day at work, let me see if I can answer all the notes.

I was at a public range where the line goes cold on the hour and half hour. Since I'm learning my process I go slow, each set of shots was what I could do between "line cold" times.

My understanding of Dutch's method involves consistency. So far the only real variable seems to be the tight bore after the last shot. The patches I was using with the bullet were pre-lubed and kept in the same bag. Probably not a lot of variation due to wicking.

The flyer was the last shot. I had been using some cleaning patches but they didn't seem to be hard to pull out until the end so they may not be thick enough.

I'm using a large plate because I'm still working the process and sighting in the rifle. Once I have an idea of the groups I can move the sights, and then move the target out further. It was easy to see the center of the plate as it was a sunny day.

 

[mooman76]

Large plate is fine but put a dot on it just big enough to see(like 1") so you know you are aiming for the same place.

 

[Cowboy]

My understanding of Dutch's method involves consistency.

I'm using a large plate because I'm still working the process and sighting in the rifle. Once I have an idea of the groups I can move the sights, and then move the target out further. It was easy to see the center of the plate as it was a sunny day.

Yes, Consistency is the key! If there is one thing that Dutch preaches over and over again in his Accuracy System, that is consistency. As far as a Target, I too use paper plates for my targets. As already suggested above, I do make a small black square about 1" by 1" in the center of my plate so I will always have the same aim point for each and every shot. Respectfully, Cowboy :thumbsup:

 

[Dr5x]

You refer to a tight bore after the last shot.
Actually your bore was becoming slightly smaller after each progressive shot as BP residue is baking on layer after layer.
Each time you fire you are firing out of a different sized smaller bore barrel.
People who complain how it gets harder to load after each shot also argue with me about the value of removing that residue when it is still soft.
Their logic escapes me.
Although the main result of shooting from the same sized bore each time is primarily an aid to accuracy, there has always been in the back of my mind the feeling that when you have to force a patched lead ball on top of the powder charge what would be the result if the ball use can't force its way back out when the rifle is fired..
You would have what is called a pipe bomb. In my early years of experimenting there were usually one or two reports a year about a ML rifle blowing up.
I believe Douglas Barrel quit producing their fine product asa result of a few such disasters.
I am willing to bet that none of those cases were the bores wiped frequently between every one or two shots.

Yadda Yadda Yadda I tend to go on about this subject and will continue to do so. And people will continue to dispute it.

Dutch Schoultz

 

[Dr5x]

Vertical strings are usually caused by varying degrees of patch lubrication., as you say, but you can achieve the same thing by slight variations in the powder charge though while they will be hiting higher and lower they won't beas centered as far as left and right are concerned..

I am taking up too much space on the Forum and will try to limit myself. I become boring even to me.

Dutch

 

[Cowboy]

I am taking up too much space on the Forum and will try to limit myself. I become boring even to me.

You never talk to much and you are never boring Dutch. We are very fortunate to have you here, and we learn everytime you post! Respectfully,Cowboy :hatsoff:

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

4 shots @100 was good enough for me. One more shot would just be a waste of powder and ball :hatsoff: