Impossible Pistol Shot

[TANSTAAFL]

My son-in-law from a good rest can pretty consistently bust clay pigeons at 100 yds with a .44 cap lock I built for the daughter. Not bragging on him or the pistol, just fact, but no way could I do it, I tried.

 

[Freedom]

I cannot recall the exact math here but I think it is around 500 grains. A boolit of this weight will stay at lethal velocity until it falls to the earth NO matter how far it is fired. As long as it stays on it's ballistic arch. If someone recalls or knows this formula please share it.

I have an old dish washer at 800yrds. Just a couple shots from the 475Linebaugh revolver and you would not even feel safe leaving your good hat on it :haha: Let alone try riding a horse past it.

I realize this is not a Tower Pistol but it sure reminds one what a handgun is capable of. :thumbsup:

Our Mountain Man (Pre 1840's only)club has a 40in gong at 200yrds...Pistol hits on it are real common from just about every man and woman in the club. Once elevation is figured the shot is a "Gimmee"

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Benjamin Martin shoots a British soldier who is on a moving horse using a flintlock pistol at a range of approximately 100 yards.

What scene was that in? I don't remember Martin doing that. I do remember Tavington doing it, though.

It was Tavington. He may have purchased his own pistol--officers often did. It most likely would have been a .62 caliber pistol with a barrel around 9" long and using a 30 or 35 grain load. This is a 10 to 1 ratio of lead to powder and it is being lit off in a short barrel with no sights on it and the target is 100 yards or so away and moving--bouncing up and down and swaying from side to side. The shot is being fired one handed with no rest by a man on another horse that has just been running full tilt and is no doubt not as steady as it might be. I think Tavington would have get awfully lucky to score a hit under these conditions--even with the aid of Hollywood's notorious lack of respect for reality.

 

[Dphar]

Found the following quote on IMDB.com about the movie - The Patriot.

"Factual errors: Benjamin Martin shoots a British soldier who is on a moving horse using a flintlock pistol at a range of approximately 100 yards. A ball from a black powder pistol would not even reach that sort of distance and hitting a moving target at that distance would be difficult even with a modern pistol. The effective range of a blackpowder pistol is about 20 feet as the barrel is too short to allow all the powder to burn before the ball leaves the barrel (too low a muzzle velocity to achieve any sort of range"

While the shot in the movie is pretty unlikely, and judging from the pistol shooting at the last rhondy I wend to; black powder pistol shooting is somewhat more difficult than modern shooting. My question is, the quote that effective range for a BP pistol is 20 feet seems a bit low too me. What do you think the effective range for a bp pistol is?

With a two handed hold I could hit a man at 75 to 100 without much problem with a flint pistol.
They are not as inaccurate as you might think. 1.5-2" 25 yard groups etc. This particular pistol has a barrel about 8" long and its a 66" twist Douglas 54. I used 60 grains of FFFG. Eyes were better then. It would hit the little buffalo silhouettes, same size as the NMLRA buffalo target reliably at 75 yards for me or its current owner.
I killed one deer with a similar perc pistol at 25-30 yards.
I have one under construction right now that should shoot just as well.

Hitting a man on moving horse would be tough of course and then lucky guess comes into play. But the pistol should be capable.
With 45 grains of BP a 6" 50 caliber flint pistol will make about 800 fps. At 20-25 yards it should shoot completely through an antelope on broadside shot and shot to the hide diagonally through a mule deer buck from the shoulder to the off side where the diaphragm connects to the chest wall. The antelope had been wounded by a modern hunter being shot through the mouth. The other was one I had shot with a 58 flint and was laying down when I shot him with the pistol.
They are not popguns. Longer barrels will easily exceed 1000 fps.
This is the upper leg bone and the ball that broke it from a percussion pistol 54 cal and 8" barrel.

Ball broke the leg bone, took out the heart and lodged under the hide on the offside.
Deer ran about 40 yards or less and piled up.
I was hunting with the pistol in this case.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

At Adobe Walls one of the longest shots on a person was at 1538 yards, "Mike Venturino and some friends tried the long range (1538 yards) Dixon shot. They found it was quite possible; it just amounts to getting the elevation right with the old Sharps". Wonder what the person sitting on his horse thought when he fell and never heard the rifle?

One of the most scarey quotes in Texas is "watch this, hold my beer". It has killed and injuried more people than any other.

Knowing some of the pistol shooters that I do, I would not stand 100 yards down range of them, just to see if they could do it.

Nah, not even on a windy day.

RDE

The 1538 yard shot was not mentioned until Billy Dixon's wife published a book after his death.
Not other mention of it by anyone previous to Olive Dixon's version.

Dan

 

[R.M.]

Wow, a .54 with 60gr in a handgun!!!! Man, that must be a handful. My elbow hurts just thinking about it. :surrender:

 

[faw3]

Your right about all that...practice of dueling ..and its why most if not near all those are smooth bore to hit but not kill, I saw someplace on here about one that had rifleing in just the back 1 or 2" just enouh to get a kill or should say keep ya alive! :shake: Fred :hatsoff:

 

[DanChamberlain]

Assuming 800fps starting velocity, a ball will generally shed 40 to 45% of its starting velocity at 100 yards. So, roughly 500 fps would easily have the retained velocity/energy to reach a man's vitals.

Without knowing what gun was being fired; what charge and caliber, it's silly for the author to even speculate.

Dan

 

[MikeChapin]

Whoever wrote that is completly clueless as to what a pistol will do. Granted the odds of hitting someone moving at 100 or so yards with a smoothbore pistol is unlikely. If you did hit someone with the .60+ ball at that range he is going to go down though.

Typical BP paper competition is done at 25 and 50 yards. I don't practice enough with a pistol to get much above an 80 at 25 yards but those that do can score in the eighties consitantly at 50 yards with a single hand hold. As bad as I am I can still hit 100 yard groundhog silhouettes three out of five times off a rest. At 100 yards the ball still has enough oomph to knock over a heavy metal silhouette target.

 

[oletymepreacher]

This shot is entirely possible. Shooting a Queen Ann, 30 grs FFF with patched 50 cal round ball,I hit the 100 yard gong first try. Didn't try again.

From the sound of the gong, I am glad it wasn't me. Gong is 20 inch diameter 1/2 steel plate.

Shot was one handed, but not mounted on a horse.

 

[FishDFly]

Me, I don't know, I just imagine, if so.

I have seen some amazing shooting and luck to the extreme. Then, I have seen some amazing misses also.

Shooting is like the phrase, even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then, now and then luck comes along which is scarey.

I just know there are some pistol shooters that I would not stand down range of at 100 yards.

RDE

 

[JackAubrey]

I know the scene you speak of and it is a long shot(pun intended).I have no doubt that the ball would have enough energy to do harm.And a shot doesn't have to be lethal to be tactically effective.Best regards,JA

 

[flaming canvas]

Oh, they can be accurate all right. Our club paper match includes an event that is one shot at a 6 inch black bull with a 1 1/2 inch white center. Getting a ball completely in the white wins $50. I shoot it with my pistol when I'm feeling ornery. I've put it in the black several times and usually am closer than 3 or 4 of the rifle shots.
Best I ever did with my Lyman was at Carlsbad a few years back. Just messing around while I waited my turn at the pistol targets, I tried a couple of shots at a buffalo silhouette that was up for the trail walk. The target was about 24 inches long, whatever size that is. One ranging shot and then 3 hits out of 4. We stepped it off at 180 yards.
The pistol is 54 caliber, loaded with 50 gr Goex 2f.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Maybe. But Tavington's smoothbore wouldn't have any sights and it would have a barrel length in the 9" area. Most likely a .62 caliber so it would use a 320-325 grain ball over 30 to 35 grains of powder. Muzzle velocity would be very low and aiming would be more correctly termed guessing. Add in the moving target and the one handed hold on the pistol and I think a hit is most unlikely. And even the slightest crosswind would really ruin the shot. :v

 

[Travis Gregory]

I was with a couple friends at the range behind our gun shop one day and I was shooting at a bowling ball sized rock with my buddies Sharps rifle. The rock was about 150yds away and when my bullet hit it a bunny ran out from behind it zigzagging away from us. I didnt have another round but my friend did have his 1911 .45. He pulled it from his holster and started blasting. His 3rd shot hit and killed the rabbit on a dead run. I actuall saw the bullet skip off the ground about 5-10 feet behind the bunny and bounce into the bunny. It was a complete luck shot we all know and the shooter admits it, but it DID happen. Unless it was a really small caliber with a really light load the ball would get the job done but the shot from horseback to a moving target was probably pure luck.

 

[Zonie]

I don't think luck had anything to do with it.
When the Director says,"your going to ride to that point and fall off of your horse like you've been shot." that's what happens. :rotf:

Ya, I've made several impossible shots. They usually happened when I think to myself, "I'm just gonna lob one out there to scare that critter."
Then, without aiming, BANG and the animal goes head over heels into the dirt. :rotf:

 

[Sarge]

Whoever wrote that is clueless. The round ball from a properly-charged BP pistol will kill easily at 100 yards.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

But only if you can hit your man--unlikely under the given circumstances and with the weapon of choice.

 

[rafterob]

It would certainly be possible- "lucky" is more like it. I can hit a large bear silhouette at 100 yards with my rifled .50 cal percussion pistol using 40 grns and full elevation of my front sight. Where I hit it I'm not sure, but I hear the plink.

 

[Dphar]

I was playing around at 300 with a 50 caliber longrifle with 75 grains of FFFG Swiss. It would be very lethal at 300 and probably pretty low in velocity. One ball cut into the base of alive cedar about 1/2" in and tore and erupted bark for about 4".
Also in shooting three shots at a silhouette I got one hit. I was investigating the shooting of British General Fraser at 300 yards.
One was a clean miss, one would have killed or severly wounded the horse and this would have done for Fraser.

Holding 4 foot over and about 3-4 ft into the breeze.

Dan