If you can't get real Black Powder

[Zonie]

Sticker shock almost killed me.
I just priced it at Cabela's and it's $49.99 a can
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/blackhorn-209-high-performance-muzzleloading-powder

I notice, that bottle of Black Horn 209 only contains 10 ounces of the propellent. At that price the stuff would cost $79.98 per pound.

 

[Frontier's]

I shot a ton of American pioneer powder andits a good accurate powder, not the mostconsistent over the chronograph nor the most powerful. I bought a lot of black mz for 10 bucks a pound. Personally, i wouldn't pay over 10 bucks a pound for it. If i had to, pyrodex is a much better powder. Luckily for me, i have a ton of gearhart owen stashed away.

 

[SDSmlf]

I notice, that bottle of Black Horn 209 only contains 10 ounces of the propellent. At that price the stuff would cost $79.98 per pound.

Believe that 10 ounces gives ‘the one pound equivalent’ of blackpowder. Remember, most subs are lighter than black.

 

[TNGhost]

What track is that ?

This whole topic stated out with the OP bashing Pyrodex and 777 then making exorbitant and broad claims about Black MZ, APP, and Jim Shockly's Gold based on his singular and limited use of the product.
Just another typical day on the forum.

For those in love or infatuated with APP products you can find a dealers list here.

http://www.americanpioneerpowder.com/dealers.html

I take it that you aren't into diversity, tolerance or freedom of choice,...when it comes to powder.

 

[Zonie]

I take it that you aren't into diversity, tolerance or freedom of choice,...when it comes to powder.

He has his opinion, you have yours. Now, drop it. I've had enough of you two bickering.

 

[Carbon 6]

Believe that 10 ounces gives ‘the one pound equivalent’ of blackpowder. Remember, most subs are lighter than black.

Still, it is 2.5 times more expensive than black powder. Not a big deal for the one shot a year guy, but obscenely prohibitive for an avid shooter.

 

[Carbon 6]

I take it that you aren't into diversity, tolerance or freedom of choice,...when it comes to powder.

You should try to look for the beneficial information contained within my posts.

For example:

For those in love or infatuated with APP products you can find a dealers list here.

http://www.americanpioneerpowder.com/dealers.html

It will make everyone happier.

 

[SDSmlf]

Still, it is 2.5 times more expensive than black powder. Not a big deal for the one shot a year guy, but obscenely prohibitive for an avid shooter.

With the money many have invested in their guns and accudiments, the cost of powder is barely a blip on the radar if it gives the desired performance. I know guys that shoot a lot and cost is a couple of bucks every time they pull the trigger. Cost is just the price of admission to many. And where are you finding BP for $20 a pound today? Pretty much north of $30 everywhere I see it. Also, believe OP was about performance.

 

[firestick]

I shot a ton of American pioneer powder andits a good accurate powder, not the mostconsistent over the chronograph nor the most powerful. I bought a lot of black mz for 10 bucks a pound. Personally, i wouldn't pay over 10 bucks a pound for it. If i had to, pyrodex is a much better powder. Luckily for me, i have a ton of gearhart owen stashed away.

Have you tried Blk MZ with wads or conicals and PRB? I think loading it compressed and with an over powder tight fighting wad improves its performance greatly. I can shoot pretty good groups with my .58 using it that way.

 

[Carbon 6]

With the money many have invested in their guns and accudiments, the cost of powder is barely a blip on the radar if it gives the desired performance. I know guys that shoot a lot and cost is a couple of bucks every time they pull the trigger. Cost is just the price of admission to many. And where are you finding BP for $20 a pound today? Pretty much north of $30 everywhere I see it. Also, believe OP was about performance.

I disagree, or at least have a different philosophy. The price of guns and gear is a lifetime investment. Paying many times the price of that gun or gear in powder and lead turns an otherwise sound investment into a lifelong liability.

 

[Zonie]

Believe that 10 ounces gives ‘the one pound equivalent’ of blackpowder. Remember, most subs are lighter than black.

That's possible but Pyrodex and Triple 7 are sold by the pound. The fact that Pyrodex is lighter weight than an equal volume of real black powder but it is loaded based on its volume means the shooter gets more shots per pound. In fact, Pyrodex used to brag about it on the label saying words to the effect of, "You Get 30% more shots".

 

[Carbon 6]

That's possible but Pyrodex and Triple 7 are sold by the pound. The fact that Pyrodex is lighter weight than an equal volume of real black powder but it is loaded based on its volume means the shooter gets more shots per pound. In fact, Pyrodex used to brag about it on the label saying words to the effect of, "You Get 30% more shots".

In other words, if it's more energetic but they only sell you 10 ounces, you're not gaining anything.

 

[SDSmlf]

In other words, if it's more energetic but they only sell you 10 ounces, you're not gaining anything.

How did it work when you tried it?

 

[BadDaditood]

With the money many have invested in their guns and accudiments, the cost of powder is barely a blip on the radar if it gives the desired performance. I know guys that shoot a lot and cost is a couple of bucks every time they pull the trigger. Cost is just the price of admission to many. And where are you finding BP for $20 a pound today? Pretty much north of $30 everywhere I see it. Also, believe OP was about performance.

A full case of Goex (25lbs) plus hazmat ($25) has finally reached $20 per pound
Olde Eynesford a little more, Swiss a lot more
Of course if you only buy one pound of Goex it’ll be $45 plus tax

 

[Carbon 6]

How did it work when you tried it?

I don't understand your question with regard to my quote.

 

[SDSmlf]

I don't understand your question with regard to my quote.

In other words, if it's more energetic but they only sell you 10 ounces, you're not gaining anything.

Is your knowledge and opinion of Buckhorn 209 performance (‘not gaining anything’) based on actual use and knowledge of using and shooting Buckhorn 209 in a muzzleloader?

 

[SDSmlf]

A full case of Goex (25lbs) plus hazmat ($25) has finally reached $20 per pound
Olde Eynesford a little more, Swiss a lot more
Of course if you only buy one pound of Goex it’ll be $45 plus tax

I was ‘quoting’ prices for 5lb internet and LGS purchases. Remember, many here do not believe in or can not participate in the principle of bulk purchases. I purchase in 25lb lots, but that is me. You can get BP from places like Powderinc for less than $20 per pound in 25 pound lots.

 

[Frontier's]

Is your knowledge and opinion of Buckhorn 209 performance (‘not gaining anything’) based on actual use and knowledge of actually using Buckhorn 209?

Blackhorn is a whole new beast. The first honest powder that doesnt foul your bore, extremely consistent in velocity. Only set back, 10oz cans and it requires 209 primers. I used to use a 5gr pyrodex booster charge to reliably use it in my hawen. Fun, but time consuming indeed

 

[Carbon 6]

Is your knowledge and opinion of Buckhorn 209 performance (‘not gaining anything’) based on actual use and knowledge of using and shooting Buckhorn 209 in a muzzleloader?

I was referring to the economics based on math.

I doubt blackthorn 209 would function in any of my guns except for the modern one. I had to modify several just to get black MZ to work right.

What gun do you use Blackhorn 209 in ?

 

[SDSmlf]

I was referring to the economics based on math.

I doubt blackthorn 209 would function in any of my guns except for the modern one. I had to modify several just to get black MZ to work right.

What gun do you use Blackhorn 209 in ?

Sounds like you have never used Blackhorn 209, correct? Hope not. OP as I understood it was asking about performance, not economics. Me, I tried Blackhorn 209 in a couple of side lock percussion guns. Found I needed a 209 primer adapter for consistent ignition and performance, but BH 209 kicked butt as far as consistency and velocity, and left virtuality no residue. Still found adapters to be a PIA. In plunger style inlines it didn’t work very well. In closed breech guns with 209 primer ignition it was hard to beat, but not my thing. I’ve burned a few pounds just experimenting. Please don’t tell me you are a keyboard jockey basing opinion on what you researched on the internet, never having used BH209?