Idiot's guide to traditional mocs

Discussion in 'Clothing' started by Onojutta, Dec 27, 2009.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

  1. Dec 27, 2009 #1

    Onojutta

    Onojutta

    Onojutta

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    730
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Martic Township, Lancaster County
    I'd like to invest in a good pair of mocs for hunting, but after wearing modern "technical" footwear exclusively for the last 15 years, I'm not sure what to expect out of a pair of traditional mocs.

    For starters, are most today made with the intent of actually wearing in the back country, or are they crafted for wear at rendezvous, around the house, etc. where they can be showed off and enjoyed without taking much abuse?

    If they can be worn into the wilderness, how do they perform in the absence of such materials as thinsulate, goretex, and neoprene? How do you keep your feet warm and most importantly dry?

    I have heard of and checked out arrow, but what are some other makers who are comparable? thanks.
     
  2. Dec 27, 2009 #2

    John Wasmuth

    John Wasmuth

    John Wasmuth

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,328
    Likes Received:
    3
    Most commercial moccasins are made to be appealing to the eye rather than wearability. Historically correct moccasins are few and far between. Arrow and some of the others are built well but no where near what was made hundreds of years ago. There are some really good books on the subject that you can learn to make your own or spend some time with some one that makes them on a regular basis, not hard to learn at all. I cant remember the exact words but it was said that when warm and dry the served the foot well, when wet the wearing of them was a decent way of going bare foot.
     
  3. Dec 27, 2009 #3

    Trench

    Trench

    Trench

    62 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes Received:
    15
    Here's a pair of centerseam's I made from a kit from Jas. Townshend. The cost was $50 for the kit.

    Wearability is fantastic and I wear them with bare feet. I only use my mocs when I'm squirrel hunting in early season. (Aug,Sept,Oct.) After that I switch to Jefferson boots/Hi-lo's.

    Durability is another matter. I think these will last me some years as my terrain is flat woodland. It's pretty easy on the mocs. Even so, I think if I wore these every day out in the wilderness I would probably need a new pair every few months...at least with the way I make them. :grin:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Dec 27, 2009 #4

    John Wasmuth

    John Wasmuth

    John Wasmuth

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,328
    Likes Received:
    3
    Nice lookin moc's. Here in the rocky hill country of Texas I wear out about six pair of soft soles a year, but I wear them all the time, except at work. I make several different styles, mostly brain tan buffalo, but some grain on deer and elk as well. For winter I make them a size larger than I normally wear and just wear heavy wool socks, cource most days here it isnt below freezing for very long and winters are normally a little dry. I have a couple pair that I work in mink oil to water proof them some what. Have a brother that uses hair on buffalo to make his mocs up in the dakotas.
     
  5. Dec 27, 2009 #5

    J.D.

    J.D.

    J.D.

    69 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    3,196
    Likes Received:
    1
    Micanopy has the right idea. Make 'em out of leather that will hold up. IMHO, deer skin is ok for light wear, but for real use, full thickness elk of Buffalo will wear much longer...but they are harder to sew too, but not all that much.

    Johnny Mac, in Illinois makes the best mocs I have seen. You can get them with single or double soles. I lost my contact info for Mac, so don't know how to put you in touch with him. Maybe someone from Illinois will know how to contact him.

    For winter wear, a coupla layers of wool socks, or layers of socks and thin, buckskin mocs, or nepes will keep you pretty warm, as long as your feet stay dry.

    Nepes are little more than heavy wool cloth folded around your feet as a kind of sock. Never used nepes, but I have it on good authority that they work well, if sufficiently heavy wool is used.

    I made a pair of moc liners of sheep fleece, with wool on, that is very warm even when slightly wet. Might have to make a new pair, 'cause the fleece is wearing thin in some places.

    Here is a page for those who might wanna make their own mocs. This pattern is as right as anyone can make 'em.
    http://www.southernindiandept.org/mocpattern.htm

    God bless
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2018
  6. Dec 28, 2009 #6

    Ketchakah

    Ketchakah

    Ketchakah

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    Cortlands Ford, Indiana territory
    Mocs are a funny thing. They are a compomise between easilly constructed and duribility. As far as i know, there is NO commertialy made traditional mocs being sold.
    The last few sets i made, I made from cow hide. They have incredable durrability but were hard to sew as every hole needed to be pre punched. The Natives would use elk or Deer for their mocs. They were much easier to sew as a cutting needle would go thru them with out a punched hole. Downside they wore out quickly. the Lewis and Clark expedition went thru a set of mocs every other day or so. Most Natives would go barefoot unless really needing them.
    Another problem with the thicker leathers is that they dont gather or pucker at the toe as well as the lighter leathers do. This will affect the look and fit.
    Best plan is to get a pattern and practice making them. They really arnt hard just takes practice.
    I stay away from the pattern that has the seam under the toe. It wears out really fast for me. You can modify that by just rounding the toe and not cutting that V in the toe. Using a gathering stitch at the toe will bring it together to look right. :wink:
     
  7. Dec 28, 2009 #7

    Onojutta

    Onojutta

    Onojutta

    45 Cal.

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    730
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Martic Township, Lancaster County
    From the sounds of these responses a person may come to the conclusion that mocs aren't the first choice of rugged footwear. What other historically correct footwear from the 18th century might be considered?
     
  8. Dec 28, 2009 #8

    Muskeg Stomper

    Muskeg Stomper

    Muskeg Stomper

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    1,044
    Likes Received:
    2
  9. Dec 28, 2009 #9

    John Wasmuth

    John Wasmuth

    John Wasmuth

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,328
    Likes Received:
    3
    Dont go gettin hasty friend, Moc's are great, I wear out more than half a dozen pair a year, but wear them all the time. Well constructed moc's are out there, you just have to know where to look. I aint sure if we are allowed to post links here, but pm me and I can point you in the right direction.
     
  10. Dec 28, 2009 #10

    Lukos

    Lukos

    Lukos

    32 Cal.

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    I learned a lot about mocs (winter) when I was in Wisconsin. They use mukluks but I have used there ideas on the few pair I have made. There is a book called Craft Manual of North American Indian Footwear that has many good patterns. I wax the seams of center seam mocs and then grease them with fat. It is a little messy but seems to work. I like to experiment with different techniques and try them in the field. If I remember correct there is an article in A Pilgrims Journey that he details winter where, do not know how accurate it is.
     
  11. Dec 29, 2009 #11

    John Wasmuth

    John Wasmuth

    John Wasmuth

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,328
    Likes Received:
    3
    Mukluks are pretty neat, good servicable foot gear. Lota different styles of mocs out there, lota different ideas. Hard part is finding well built ones that will last for a good period of time. Its not a bad idea to take the time to learn to make them for ones self, that way you can have plenty of them on hand, different moc's for different situations.
     
  12. Dec 29, 2009 #12

    PaulN/KS

    PaulN/KS

    PaulN/KS

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2004
    Messages:
    2,506
    Likes Received:
    1
    The Stiching Scotsman makes good sideseam mocs...
    He has a website and will make hard or soft soles.
    I and the wife each have a pair. Heavy elk hide and they are made for your feet...
     
  13. Dec 29, 2009 #13

    Black Hand

    Black Hand

    Black Hand

    Cannon

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Messages:
    9,349
    Likes Received:
    764
    Your best bet is to make your own with blanket liners. Now, they will never be equal to modern footwear, but they can be comfortable and warm regardless. The reality is that moccasins wear out and need to be fixed/replaced, but that is just part of the experience.
     
  14. Jan 1, 2010 #14

    Ketchakah

    Ketchakah

    Ketchakah

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    Cortlands Ford, Indiana territory
    Fooy,
    I was just today made aware of a company that makes really good period mocs. I couldent find this thread to post the link. Ill try to find it again.
     
  15. Jan 1, 2010 #15

    William McConagher

    William McConagher

    William McConagher

    32 Cal.

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    On the subject of a complete idiot's guide to some good mocs...

    is yatahai any good? they have some great looking mocs just curious about wear and tear...

    thanks
     
  16. Jan 1, 2010 #16

    Ketchakah

    Ketchakah

    Ketchakah

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    Cortlands Ford, Indiana territory
    Hello Wil,
    In my opinion No. They seen to be fine mocs, but very modern in design and construction. More for the dance crowd than for Historical reenacting.
    I am still looking for that link. The mocs listed were really good. Ill keep at it.
     
  17. Jan 1, 2010 #17

    Ketchakah

    Ketchakah

    Ketchakah

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    Cortlands Ford, Indiana territory
    I am thinking it was this company http://elkridertradingpost.com/ Howver they are no longer showing the picture that I saw 3 days ago. Blast me for not saving it :cursing:

    Sorry Guys, If i come up with it again i will post it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2018
  18. Jan 1, 2010 #18

    daven1834

    daven1834

    daven1834

    36 Cal.

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    You might take a look at Beyond Comfort Mocs.Bonnie make each pair as custom fit. A little higher priced but well worth the money, as they wear out she can replace the soles. http://beyondcomfort.com
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2018
  19. Jan 1, 2010 #19

    William McConagher

    William McConagher

    William McConagher

    32 Cal.

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks, that's what I was wondering too. Usually I've noticed when someone uses a name that makes it seem like they're authentic, it's usually quite the opposite. Oh well, thanks for the head's up.
     
  20. Jan 2, 2010 #20

    tg

    tg

    tg

    Cannon

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2001
    Messages:
    10,776
    Likes Received:
    8
    There are a few vendors on the link below who make a PC centerseam eastern style, made from one piece with no extra replaceable sole,they will wear out but that is the trade off between durability and authenticity at times.



    http://www.1stroyals.org/links.html
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2018

Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page

Group Builder
arrow_white