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Identify this lock and some other parts on a new to me rifle?

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I recently bought a clean little .36 caliber percussion rifle for a really good price. It's supposedly a Narragansett Arms built rifle, but I can't confirm it. Looks like a cross between a full stock Hawken style and a Leman plains rifle to my uneducated eye. It has double set triggers, brass buttplate and triggerguard, and the barrel is held to the stock by two bolt through ramrod pipes (which are hideous and don't fit the small rod).
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I was hoping to convert it to Flint, but I can't find a flint lock that has the same rounded corner as this lock. I was hoping it would be an L&R lock like on my Narragansett Fusil de Chasse but this one isn't marked and doesn't look like their lock. Anybody identify this lock and trigger? Is it decent?

The green marker is pointing to the rounded corner that is square on all other locks of this style I have found.
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IMG_20190123_202712.jpg I can't identify the lock. The internals look unusual. I wonder if the mainspring is a replacement. The finish on it doesn't match the other parts. There looks like a cross pin on the front of the tumbler, holding a "roller" that bears on the end of the spring. Just a guess, though.

The triggers however,(your photo is upside down) have the trademark, "MSM" between ends of a powder horn, of Mountain State Muzzleloading from Williamstown, WV. The company was owned by the late Fred Lambert & Ed Cain. I think the company went out of business in the early 2000's when Fred past away. Ed & his son, Scott, continues the muzzleloading business under the name, "Cains Outdoor", (304) 375-4794, which is still in operation. Just Google, "Cains Outdoor".

If you were to forward those photos to Scott Cain & his dad, they may be able to shed light on the lock, and possibly the rifle as well. Hope this helps.
 
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I can't identify the lock. The internals look unusual. I wonder if the mainspring is a replacement. The finish on it doesn't match the other parts. There looks like a cross pin on the front of the tumbler, holding a "roller" that bears on the end of the spring. Just a guess, though.

The triggers however,(your photo is upside down) have the trademark, "MSM" between ends of a powder horn, of Mountain State Muzzleloading from Williamstown, WV. The company was owned by the late Fred Lambert & Ed Cain. I think the company went out of business in the early 2000's when Fred past away. Ed & his son, Scott, continues the muzzleloading business under the name, "Cains Outdoor", (304) 375-4794, which is still in operation. Just Google, "Cains Outdoor".

If you were to forward those photos to Scott Cain & his dad, they may be able to shed light on the lock, and possibly the rifle as well. Hope this helps.

That does help greatly, thank you for that!

Yes the tumbler does have a roller as you mentioned. This gun has been fired MAYBE 10 times by the original owner. I would assume the mainspring is original as it (the rifle) came, but maybe not original to that lock? It is a very smooth operating lock, but the hammer tension seems very high. However, I have never owned a percussion gun before so I'm a poor judge, LOL

I'll do a little more digging and see what I can turn up.
 
Just speaking about the lock the way the main spring bears on the tumbler is a poor design. As the lock is cocked the spring is going to apply more pressure at full cock then when on the nipple. A lock with a spring that has a hooked tip or links to the tumbler with a stirrup moves the pressure closer to the center of the tumbler as the lock is cocked. That allows for less pressure on the sear at full cock and most pressure on the nipple. Browning did a very similar design and it has the same short comings.
 
Just speaking about the lock the way the main spring bears on the tumbler is a poor design. As the lock is cocked the spring is going to apply more pressure at full cock then when on the nipple. A lock with a spring that has a hooked tip or links to the tumbler with a stirrup moves the pressure closer to the center of the tumbler as the lock is cocked. That allows for less pressure on the sear at full cock and most pressure on the nipple. Browning did a very similar design and it has the same short comings.

That's good info. It seems smooth, but man its stout when it's cocked. Makes sense now. All the more reason to try and convert it to a rock knocker.

I can get an L&R Late English flint lock that should fit well, except for that radius would be a sharp corner and would leave a gap. But oh well, it's not exactly a museum piece.
 
WOW…. That mainspring is chunky/hefty. I notice what appears to be a pin in the forward point of the tumbler (rear tip of mainspring). If there is a slot cut into that point of the tumbler (as I think I can sort of see) that is defiantly not the right mainspring for that lock. Should be a stirrup connection I think whith a different mainspring.

Just sayin....
 
WOW…. That mainspring is chunky/hefty. I notice what appears to be a pin in the forward point of the tumbler (rear tip of mainspring). If there is a slot cut into that point of the tumbler (as I think I can sort of see) that is defiantly not the right mainspring for that lock. Should be a stirrup connection I think whith a different mainspring.

Just sayin....

You ain't lying, it's STOUT. The pin is actually for a roller that's in that end of the tumbler. I'm thinking of narrowing the spring a bit to make it a little weaker. Can't hurt I don't reckon.
 
That's good info. It seems smooth, but man its stout when it's cocked. Makes sense now. All the more reason to try and convert it to a rock knocker.

I can get an L&R Late English flint lock that should fit well, except for that radius would be a sharp corner and would leave a gap. But oh well, it's not exactly a museum piece.

take a lock at a chambers builders lock. it had a lock plate you file to the shape you ned.
 
Look at track of the wolf,l&r replacement for cva and traditions flint.the lock will be pointed but on the inside it is marked for curve.i just picked one up from them but I left the point.they have measurements for you to check.
 
If you have a copy of Track of the Wolf's sales catalog, all of the pictured locks for sale are shown actual size. You can make a tracing of your lock plate and match it up with the locks in their catalog.

Now, about your lock. I would say that your mainspring tail should be hooked by a stirrup linkage riding UNDER the tumbler connection! Yours is above the tumbler making what must be a real whopper of a pull to cock! I'm surprised you can even get it to set without breaking your mainspring!
 
I had originally thought the same as Captjoel and others here about a missing stirrup in place of the roller on the forward pin. However, I erased the idea when I spotted the roller.

I still wonder if this is a replacement spring.

Maybe we’re seeing the pin as the remains of the stirrup’s crosspin, since we can’t see the right-side view of the tumbler. Maybe there’s no roller at all, and we’re seeing shadows around the forward pin.

It’s obvious that the sear spring screw has been replaced with a newer screw. It looks to have a rounded head, while the others are flat head screws.
 
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Thanks for the replies, a lot of good advice.

I think it's time for this lock to go. It's horrendously stout as you guys have guessed. I'll see if I can get the drum out and see if a flint conversion could happen without much trouble. If not, percussion locks are fairly reasonable. I should be able to find something that will fit, especially since the rifle isnt of any particular style anyhow .
 
As I said above...… I really think you have the wrong mainspring as a repair to a broken spring. There, I am almost positive, should be a "T" type stirrup on there and a mainspring with a fork cut on that end to attach it to the stirrup. Looking at it again and again, I really think what you have is not a roller but rather just the pin to hold the stirrup in place.

I would check it against other locks out there and try and replace the stirrup and mainspring. Have you tried to contact the number you were given for the folks that now have MSM stuff ? ("Cains Outdoor", (304) 375-4794) I would do that first before anything else. It could make this all quite easy and simple.

I have to wonder as Narraganset Arms has been out of business for quite some time. Search here on the forum for a thread about them. Jackie Brown built for them a some point in time......
 
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This gun is a little bit of a disaster. Finally got to go to the range for a while today to try and figure out a load for this thing. Groups were terrible (not really even groups) with 20-40 grains of powder and patches from .010-.020. After I managed to find a couple shot patches I noticed the "ring" was torn out most of the way around.

Then I found it... The crown is smooth, but it is WAY off kilter. Can't believe I didn't see it earlier! I'll have to see what I can do to square it up. I have an 11 degree crown cutter, just have to see if my little bitty lathe can turn out a pilot to make it stay square to the bore. Probably have to file it "eyeball square" first, LOL

You guys are probably right about the mainspring. After seeing what a disaster the rest of the gun is, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised. It's just odd since it's never been shot. Probably why it's never been shot! hahaha I'll check it out again when I go to tinker with the crown, might be a little while.

Thanks again for the advice!
 
You can fix the basic crown with a good square. First find the high side based on flat to flat and begin to work it down...… do this all the way around the barrel. Go slow.

Or.... chuck it in a good lathe, level everything and put in a good cutter and have at it. It likely will not take much. More time to set up then do the job. While you are there you can relieve the muzzle if that is your wish.
 
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