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Identify Flintlock Rifle
- Thread starter jillbraxllc
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jillbraxllc
32 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2012
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- 7
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Here are some more pictures of the words around the breech, the butt and the powder horn (idk if the powder horn is from same time period as the gun, they have just been passed down together in the family)
The piece that holds the flint to the hammer is missing.
B. Lievens is all i can make make out, i cant get the hammer to move back to see if their is anything before it.
All I can make out on the breech is "...GILATE DEO CON..."
The piece that holds the flint to the hammer is missing.
B. Lievens is all i can make make out, i cant get the hammer to move back to see if their is anything before it.
All I can make out on the breech is "...GILATE DEO CON..."
jillbraxllc
32 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2012
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I was not sure what the cal. was i measured the and it looks to be around 15 mm at the end of the barrel, so maybe a round a 58 cal.??
The butt screws in as you can see in new pictures i uploaded. There is also a small pin that slides in to place to stop the butt from coming unscrewed.
There is no way to get to the hollowed out part of the butt other than to unscrew the butt plate, which makes me think that is just been hollowed out to reduce the weight.
The gun and horn have just been handed down in the family ( which moved to the U.S. from Germany close to the French boarder)
I am not sure what happened to the missing pieces, possible just misplaced as its been handed down through out the decades.
If you have anymore questions about the gun please let me know, and i will answer them as well as i can.
The butt screws in as you can see in new pictures i uploaded. There is also a small pin that slides in to place to stop the butt from coming unscrewed.
There is no way to get to the hollowed out part of the butt other than to unscrew the butt plate, which makes me think that is just been hollowed out to reduce the weight.
The gun and horn have just been handed down in the family ( which moved to the U.S. from Germany close to the French boarder)
I am not sure what happened to the missing pieces, possible just misplaced as its been handed down through out the decades.
If you have anymore questions about the gun please let me know, and i will answer them as well as i can.
about the butt being a flask. I still feel that this is a high end piece of kit , is that a coat of arms on the esct. on the wrist ?hoochiepapa
75 Cal.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2010
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- 5,853
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No matter what it is, it's a beautiful piece!!
Got to believe it was originally a portable fowling piece of some sort. Most vintage "poacher's guns" I've seen usually have the middle of the stocks removed to same on weight and really short barrels to make them concealable, at least for their time period. This looks like something meant to fit in a smaller case, etc.
jillbraxllc
32 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2012
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I have just been informed that the barrel did used to unscrew, its just stuck now. so both the butt and the barrel do unscrew
I found these two very plain examples in a German book, Kombinations Waffen Des 15.-19. Jarhunderts (Combination Weapons of 15th - 19th Century), captioned "Steinschloß-Stockflinte Osterreich, um 1730" (Flintlock- shotgun stock, Austria 1730).
About all I can pull from the text is that the two shown are characteristic of the 17th and 18th centuries. Google Translate is not too good on technical books with specialized vocabulary. :idunno:
About all I can pull from the text is that the two shown are characteristic of the 17th and 18th centuries. Google Translate is not too good on technical books with specialized vocabulary. :idunno:
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2005
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- 5,016
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- 9,959
Hi Jbrax,
That is no cane or poachers gun. The hardware looks very French but done in a heavy-handed manner. That suggests Dutch. So does the name on the lock. The sideplate and trigger guard may show some influence of pattern sheets published by Claude Simonin during the late 17th century givng the gun a minimum early date of about 1690-1700. The stock is either stump or crotch walnut, however, it is also possible that it is burl maple. Burl maple was a popular wood during the late 17th and early 18th centuries although it cracked easily and was eventually largely abandoned as a stock wood. Is there any indication that the barrel unscrews at the point where the stock ends? If you insert a rod in the barrel do you feel a shoulder near where the stock begins?
dave
That is no cane or poachers gun. The hardware looks very French but done in a heavy-handed manner. That suggests Dutch. So does the name on the lock. The sideplate and trigger guard may show some influence of pattern sheets published by Claude Simonin during the late 17th century givng the gun a minimum early date of about 1690-1700. The stock is either stump or crotch walnut, however, it is also possible that it is burl maple. Burl maple was a popular wood during the late 17th and early 18th centuries although it cracked easily and was eventually largely abandoned as a stock wood. Is there any indication that the barrel unscrews at the point where the stock ends? If you insert a rod in the barrel do you feel a shoulder near where the stock begins?
dave
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2005
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- 5,016
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- 9,959
Hi Jbrax,
I apologize for not reading all the posts. I was responding to your original photos and did not see the photos above or your response that you thought the barrel did unscrew. The gun then is almost certainly a breechloader, hence, no ramrod. You simply unscrew the barrel, put powder in the chamber, set a ball on top, and screw the barrel back on. I am curious if there is a short inner barrel extending a few inches beyond the stock. That way the gun could be used as a pistol or carbine without the long barrel. The barrel is screwed on if you want to go fowling but when traveling, you have the short barreled gun for protection. I don't know why they often covered the barrels with wood. Perhaps, it was to give better grip for unscrewing the barrel but it also might just be fashion. Regardless, I suspect your gun is quite rare and probably worth a fair amount. Unfortunately, I don't know what the value is. The design dates back to the beginning of the 17th century at least. In Lavin and Guslers book on decorated firearms, they show a fine wheellock made by Pierre le Bourgeoys using the same idea. It was made during the first quarter of the 17th century.
dave
I apologize for not reading all the posts. I was responding to your original photos and did not see the photos above or your response that you thought the barrel did unscrew. The gun then is almost certainly a breechloader, hence, no ramrod. You simply unscrew the barrel, put powder in the chamber, set a ball on top, and screw the barrel back on. I am curious if there is a short inner barrel extending a few inches beyond the stock. That way the gun could be used as a pistol or carbine without the long barrel. The barrel is screwed on if you want to go fowling but when traveling, you have the short barreled gun for protection. I don't know why they often covered the barrels with wood. Perhaps, it was to give better grip for unscrewing the barrel but it also might just be fashion. Regardless, I suspect your gun is quite rare and probably worth a fair amount. Unfortunately, I don't know what the value is. The design dates back to the beginning of the 17th century at least. In Lavin and Guslers book on decorated firearms, they show a fine wheellock made by Pierre le Bourgeoys using the same idea. It was made during the first quarter of the 17th century.
dave
