• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades
  • Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

I have to admit...this feels like cheating...

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Sound wisdom... on a weekend adventure, I’d probably give the rabbit a pass as well...
In survival mode, I’d be wearing his unlucky rabbits foot and have a small fur bag....
 
I think that is a great definition. I do think fair chase should include some purely ethical and personal choices too. Like I won’t shoot upland game unless it’s on the wing. Or take more than 2 birds in a quail covey in a day.

My pop has a soft heart for animals and I think where I got my don’t shoot animals in camp ethic was when we were turkey hunting and a rabbit rolled through our camp right after we had parked and were setting up. Then it froze up when I snapped around to see what it was. I love hunting and am not bothered by killing as much as my pop. It’s not that I’m heartless, but the excitement of it keeps me wanting to be out there. I said if the rabbit was still there by the time I could get my gun and ammo out and load up we’d have him for supper. My pop agreed, but I could tell he was rooting for the rabbit. That thing stuck right there while I wandered around, even changing my choke. When I leveled my gun on him, my pop hollered at me,”Awwww, why don’t you just let the poor thing go!”. I’m not going against my pop, he’s a true man of character. I guess that’s why I say it’s bad juju. Because my pop wouldn’t like it. But that’s me and each person should make their own decisions about ethics, so long as they are working within the definition quoted above.

My father and grandmother saw too it that I ate more than a few crows, Robbins and cardinals as a trigger happy young man. If you killed it, you ate it.

I find questions like Fair Chase to be very interesting. Since it’s “My Thread” I will tell you what I think.

My impression is that the closer someone lives to a major city, or to a grocery store, the more “particular” they are about other folks hunting methods.

I normally ask what is the nature of the warning that they provide to the game they hunt? To be Fair, of course.

In Texas we primarily hunt out of box blinds. Some elevated, some on the ground. That’s just the way it is. Box blind or pop up blind, either are on the inside what it is on the outside...cold and wet? They are cold and wet. Chill north wind blowing? Yep, it’s gonna be breezy. So I personally don’t think sitting in my half built cabin is much different, but it sure kept the wind off.

See...here’s the thing about folks that feel entitled to lecture others about Fair Chase...the last time you picked up a couple of steaks at the store, before you dropped them in the basket, did you ask yourself what sort of Fair Chase that calf got at the feed lot? Bet it didn’t cross your mind.

You don’t own a rifle with a scope on it do you? If so you only take shots past 200 yards and keep it dialed down to the lowest magnification setting because thats about what your sight picture would look like at 100 with iron sights...right? I mean, you know, Fair Chase and all.

I guess you would tell my 12 year old who shot a doe in the rain last week that since he wasn’t soaking wet that, well, he was doing it wrong.

So, where does your moral superiority end, exactly?

Hunting is what you make it. As long as it’s legal. And sometimes it just depends on how hard you want to make it for yourself...that day.

Would I shoot a 12 point buck out the door of that cabin? You bet. I manage that little piece of ground for deer. Would I do the same from the ranch owners house at the property I run a deer lease on in central Texas? Likely not. The story of the hunt and the challenge of catching that big boy on his own ground is the reward.

And using a primitive weapon adds even more to the challenge and the reward. I’m only a couple generations away from my G-grandfather who as a young man traded bullets for arrows with Kiowa and Comanche. He and I briefly shared the planet together. I’m told there was a lively debate about asking the coroner to remove the arrowhead he carried in his rib cage for over 80 years after having it placed there. I’d like to know his thoughts on Fair Chase. But now, you know mine.

Enjoy your next steak my friend
 

It is a weapon that some say is the predecessor to the bow. It’s a long stick with a handle in the front, a channel on top and a backstop where a long arrow rests with the back against the backstop. It allows the thrower to apply force over time to the arrow thereby creating arrow velocities much higher than if you hand threw the arrow.
 
I think that is a great definition. I do think fair chase should include some purely ethical and personal choices too. Like I won’t shoot upland game unless it’s on the wing. Or take more than 2 birds in a quail covey in a day.

My pop has a soft heart for animals and I think where I got my don’t shoot animals in camp ethic was when we were turkey hunting and a rabbit rolled through our camp right after we had parked and were setting up. Then it froze up when I snapped around to see what it was. I love hunting and am not bothered by killing as much as my pop. It’s not that I’m heartless, but the excitement of it keeps me wanting to be out there. I said if the rabbit was still there by the time I could get my gun and ammo out and load up we’d have him for supper. My pop agreed, but I could tell he was rooting for the rabbit. That thing stuck right there while I wandered around, even changing my choke. When I leveled my gun on him, my pop hollered at me,”Awwww, why don’t you just let the poor thing go!”. I’m not going against my pop, he’s a true man of character. I guess that’s why I say it’s bad juju. Because my pop wouldn’t like it. But that’s me and each person should make their own decisions about ethics, so long as they are working within the definition quoted above.
I agree. :thumb:
It is a weapon that some say is the predecessor to the bow. It’s a long stick with a handle in the front, a channel on top and a backstop where a long arrow rests with the back against the backstop. It allows the thrower to apply force over time to the arrow thereby creating arrow velocities much higher than if you hand threw the arrow.
Thanks for the definition Ponderosaman. :thumb:
 
My father and grandmother saw too it that I ate more than a few crows, Robbins and cardinals as a trigger happy young man. If you killed it, you ate it.

I find questions like Fair Chase to be very interesting. Since it’s “My Thread” I will tell you what I think.

My impression is that the closer someone lives to a major city, or to a grocery store, the more “particular” they are about other folks hunting methods.

I normally ask what is the nature of the warning that they provide to the game they hunt? To be Fair, of course.

In Texas we primarily hunt out of box blinds. Some elevated, some on the ground. That’s just the way it is. Box blind or pop up blind, either are on the inside what it is on the outside...cold and wet? They are cold and wet. Chill north wind blowing? Yep, it’s gonna be breezy. So I personally don’t think sitting in my half built cabin is much different, but it sure kept the wind off.

See...here’s the thing about folks that feel entitled to lecture others about Fair Chase...the last time you picked up a couple of steaks at the store, before you dropped them in the basket, did you ask yourself what sort of Fair Chase that calf got at the feed lot? Bet it didn’t cross your mind.

You don’t own a rifle with a scope on it do you? If so you only take shots past 200 yards and keep it dialed down to the lowest magnification setting because thats about what your sight picture would look like at 100 with iron sights...right? I mean, you know, Fair Chase and all.

I guess you would tell my 12 year old who shot a doe in the rain last week that since he wasn’t soaking wet that, well, he was doing it wrong.

So, where does your moral superiority end, exactly?

Hunting is what you make it. As long as it’s legal. And sometimes it just depends on how hard you want to make it for yourself...that day.

Would I shoot a 12 point buck out the door of that cabin? You bet. I manage that little piece of ground for deer. Would I do the same from the ranch owners house at the property I run a deer lease on in central Texas? Likely not. The story of the hunt and the challenge of catching that big boy on his own ground is the reward.

And using a primitive weapon adds even more to the challenge and the reward. I’m only a couple generations away from my G-grandfather who as a young man traded bullets for arrows with Kiowa and Comanche. He and I briefly shared the planet together. I’m told there was a lively debate about asking the coroner to remove the arrowhead he carried in his rib cage for over 80 years after having it placed there. I’d like to know his thoughts on Fair Chase. But now, you know mine.

Enjoy your next steak my friend
Congrats to your son on takin that doe. I imagine that he was thrilled as I am sure you were also.
 
My father and grandmother saw too it that I ate more than a few crows, Robbins and cardinals as a trigger happy young man. If you killed it, you ate it.

I find questions like Fair Chase to be very interesting. Since it’s “My Thread” I will tell you what I think.

My impression is that the closer someone lives to a major city, or to a grocery store, the more “particular” they are about other folks hunting methods.

I normally ask what is the nature of the warning that they provide to the game they hunt? To be Fair, of course.

In Texas we primarily hunt out of box blinds. Some elevated, some on the ground. That’s just the way it is. Box blind or pop up blind, either are on the inside what it is on the outside...cold and wet? They are cold and wet. Chill north wind blowing? Yep, it’s gonna be breezy. So I personally don’t think sitting in my half built cabin is much different, but it sure kept the wind off.

See...here’s the thing about folks that feel entitled to lecture others about Fair Chase...the last time you picked up a couple of steaks at the store, before you dropped them in the basket, did you ask yourself what sort of Fair Chase that calf got at the feed lot? Bet it didn’t cross your mind.

You don’t own a rifle with a scope on it do you? If so you only take shots past 200 yards and keep it dialed down to the lowest magnification setting because thats about what your sight picture would look like at 100 with iron sights...right? I mean, you know, Fair Chase and all.

I guess you would tell my 12 year old who shot a doe in the rain last week that since he wasn’t soaking wet that, well, he was doing it wrong.

So, where does your moral superiority end, exactly?

Hunting is what you make it. As long as it’s legal. And sometimes it just depends on how hard you want to make it for yourself...that day.

Would I shoot a 12 point buck out the door of that cabin? You bet. I manage that little piece of ground for deer. Would I do the same from the ranch owners house at the property I run a deer lease on in central Texas? Likely not. The story of the hunt and the challenge of catching that big boy on his own ground is the reward.

And using a primitive weapon adds even more to the challenge and the reward. I’m only a couple generations away from my G-grandfather who as a young man traded bullets for arrows with Kiowa and Comanche. He and I briefly shared the planet together. I’m told there was a lively debate about asking the coroner to remove the arrowhead he carried in his rib cage for over 80 years after having it placed there. I’d like to know his thoughts on Fair Chase. But now, you know mine.

Enjoy your next steak my friend

I love a good steak, especially a nice grilled ribeye. It has not escaped me that the cattle we keep live to serve people. If everyone had to kill to eat meat and there were far fewer people on the planet, it would be a much fairer situation. If beyond meat or impossible foods can make true replacements that are as good or better than real meat and have a similar or cost less, I’ll eat that instead of the real thing.

I’m not claiming any moral superiority. Hunting ethics are very interesting to me and I myself have broken my own ethical code on a few occasions. In fact today,
I really wanted to pull the trigger on a perched dove. Thank you for the honest and interesting response, but don’t think that I’m telling you what to think or how you should hunt.

Because my pop didn’t teach me when I was a kid, I have some catch up to do, so I want to hear people’s real opinions and the reasons behind them.
 
Last two deer I have taken were off the balcony of s second floor bedroom at my residence. Last three Canada Geese were off the back porch by a shotgun kept inside the door. Targets of opportunity if you will.

No regrets, and even fewer over the larger number of pests culled from the garden that way.

If they weren't "for the freezer" and being eaten, I might feel differently,
 
Hi I am not about lecturing someone either on what to do or not to do when it comes to hunting. And no one should take offense or assume that anyone is trying to be "superior" and what we do is better than what they do. When I read a thread I try to have an open mind. Sometimes I read something that I never thought about and maybe I will take it to heart or it's not for me. Sometimes I write a thread and perhaps someone will consider what I do and make that part of their hunting philosophy. So take what I say in the spirit that I am not trying to offend anyone. I am just writing what I do. And sure people disagree, and that's fine but that's all it should be; a difference of opinion. I have been hunting maybe more than most on here and I am blessed to be able to still be active in the sport. I started hunting at 10 and have added another 66 years on top of that. I am proud to say I have never shot over my limit; ever. Over the years I have hunted ducks , geese, rabbits, deer, railbird, doves and pheasants. I have hunted with friends, done deer camp or some combination thereof. Most of the time however, I prefer to hunt by myself; and then eventually with my son. I don't like to be pinned down with a bunch of guys who stay up all night drinking, playing cards and then try to hunt the next day. I stay away from all of that. In my state the area where I hunt is pretty thick.; hence most hunters hunt from tree stands. I prefer not to (especially at my age). Instead of hunting from a tree stand, I prefer to build a ground blind made out of natural materials. You can take over 9 or 10 deer where I live. I only take 1 during archery and muzzleloader. The regulations say you can bait deer, and yes it is legal. I bet there are an overwhelmingly number of hunters that do it. Personally I don't do it or believe in it. Even though something is legal, to me it is not necessarily ethical. For me the reasons are plan and clear. I prefer to hunt deer on their terms. When I pull that trigger, I won't have a tinge of regret that maybe it wasn't right thus casting a shadow over the hunt. I wasn't like a friend I know who shoots them out of his bedroom window. And I have read many times oh
 
Hi I am not about lecturing someone either on what to do or not to do when it comes to hunting. And no one should take offense or assume that anyone is trying to be "superior" and what we do is better than what they do. When I read a thread I try to have an open mind. Sometimes I read something that I never thought about and maybe I will take it to heart or it's not for me. Sometimes I write a thread and perhaps someone will consider what I do and make that part of their hunting philosophy. So take what I say in the spirit that I am not trying to offend anyone. I am just writing what I do. And sure people disagree, and that's fine but that's all it should be; a difference of opinion. I have been hunting maybe more than most on here and I am blessed to be able to still be active in the sport. I started hunting at 10 and have added another 66 years on top of that. I am proud to say I have never shot over my limit; ever. Over the years I have hunted ducks , geese, rabbits, deer, railbird, doves and pheasants. I have hunted with friends, done deer camp or some combination thereof. Most of the time however, I prefer to hunt by myself; and then eventually with my son. I don't like to be pinned down with a bunch of guys who stay up all night drinking, playing cards and then try to hunt the next day. I stay away from all of that. In my state the area where I hunt is pretty thick.; hence most hunters hunt from tree stands. I prefer not to (especially at my age). Instead of hunting from a tree stand, I prefer to build a ground blind made out of natural materials. You can take over 9 or 10 deer where I live. I only take 1 during archery and muzzleloader. The regulations say you can bait deer, and yes it is legal. I bet there are an overwhelmingly number of hunters that do it. Personally I don't do it or believe in it. Even though something is legal, to me it is not necessarily ethical. For me the reasons are plan and clear. I prefer to hunt deer on their terms. When I pull that trigger, I won't have a tinge of regret that maybe it wasn't right thus casting a shadow over the hunt. I wasn't like a friend I know who shoots them out of his bedroom window. And I have read many times oh
Just a thought. I just wonder what input the deer had for thier ethical terms ?
Do as you will as your legal right and have no qualms as to what others may think.
In the last instance we must all live foremostly with ourselves .



terms
 
Hi I am not about lecturing someone either on what to do or not to do when it comes to hunting. And no one should take offense or assume that anyone is trying to be "superior" and what we do is better than what they do. When I read a thread I try to have an open mind. Sometimes I read something that I never thought about and maybe I will take it to heart or it's not for me. Sometimes I write a thread and perhaps someone will consider what I do and make that part of their hunting philosophy. So take what I say in the spirit that I am not trying to offend anyone. I am just writing what I do. And sure people disagree, and that's fine but that's all it should be; a difference of opinion. I have been hunting maybe more than most on here and I am blessed to be able to still be active in the sport. I started hunting at 10 and have added another 66 years on top of that. I am proud to say I have never shot over my limit; ever. Over the years I have hunted ducks , geese, rabbits, deer, railbird, doves and pheasants. I have hunted with friends, done deer camp or some combination thereof. Most of the time however, I prefer to hunt by myself; and then eventually with my son. I don't like to be pinned down with a bunch of guys who stay up all night drinking, playing cards and then try to hunt the next day. I stay away from all of that. In my state the area where I hunt is pretty thick.; hence most hunters hunt from tree stands. I prefer not to (especially at my age). Instead of hunting from a tree stand, I prefer to build a ground blind made out of natural materials. You can take over 9 or 10 deer where I live. I only take 1 during archery and muzzleloader. That's all I need. The regulations say you can bait deer, and yes it is legal. I bet there are an overwhelmingly number of hunters that do it. Personally I don't do it or believe in it. Even though something is legal, to me it is not necessarily ethical. For me the reasons are plan and clear. I prefer to hunt deer on their terms. When I pull that trigger, I know I won't have a tinge of regret that maybe it wasn't right thus casting a shadow over the hunt. I have a friend that shoots deer out of his bedroom window.
I have read many times on here that doing that or shooting over your bird feeder is shooting, not hunting. To me. shooting deer over bait is the same. Every season, I pass close by a guy's tree stand. We smile and wave to each other in the semi-dark. He's a nice guy. He usually takes maybe 3 or 4 deer, he also usually puts out maybe 200 lbs. of corn, apples, pumpkins, beets, turnips, salt licks throughout the season. I usually don't get one; but that's OK. I did my best, took time to scout, read the sign, build the blind, etc. I wasn't there to shoot a deer. I was there to hunt a deer and maybe get lucky and get a shot. I stay out in the weather ( except heavy rain) from dawn to dusk.. I eat my lunch in the woods. It's usually dark when I get back to my car. And you know what? To me it was a good day. As I outlined before, this is what I do and I am not passing judgement on anyone and don't think I am bragging or trying to be "superior". This is a great forum. Difference of opinions, yes. But there is also a real willingness to give advice, help someone out, expressing sympathy, and a real sense of comradery. Flashpoint.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Different ways for different folks, had a friend who would sit in his hot tub naked as a jay bird killed a decent buck every opening day, and no I was not in there with him.
 
Congrats to your son on takin that doe. I imagine that he was thrilled as I am sure you were also.

I absolutely was. And he was jumping up and down excited too...which makes me very happy. That “the hunt” motivates him. He killed his first deer at six and a half with a 12.5” suppressed .308 at 140 yards...we shoot a lot, I teach it, and I have steel to 600 yards off the back porch...and he has never lost the drive to go and excel.

Very proud of him, thanks.
 
Hi I am not about lecturing someone either on what to do or not to do when it comes to hunting. And no one should take offense or assume that anyone is trying to be "superior" and what we do is better than what they do. When I read a thread I try to have an open mind. Sometimes I read something that I never thought about and maybe I will take it to heart or it's not for me. Sometimes I write a thread and perhaps someone will consider what I do and make that part of their hunting philosophy. So take what I say in the spirit that I am not trying to offend anyone. I am just writing what I do. And sure people disagree, and that's fine but that's all it should be; a difference of opinion. I have been hunting maybe more than most on here and I am blessed to be able to still be active in the sport. I started hunting at 10 and have added another 66 years on top of that. I am proud to say I have never shot over my limit; ever. Over the years I have hunted ducks , geese, rabbits, deer, railbird, doves and pheasants. I have hunted with friends, done deer camp or some combination thereof. Most of the time however, I prefer to hunt by myself; and then eventually with my son. I don't like to be pinned down with a bunch of guys who stay up all night drinking, playing cards and then try to hunt the next day. I stay away from all of that. In my state the area where I hunt is pretty thick.; hence most hunters hunt from tree stands. I prefer not to (especially at my age). Instead of hunting from a tree stand, I prefer to build a ground blind made out of natural materials. You can take over 9 or 10 deer where I live. I only take 1 during archery and muzzleloader. The regulations say you can bait deer, and yes it is legal. I bet there are an overwhelmingly number of hunters that do it. Personally I don't do it or believe in it. Even though something is legal, to me it is not necessarily ethical. For me the reasons are plan and clear. I prefer to hunt deer on their terms. When I pull that trigger, I won't have a tinge of regret that maybe it wasn't right thus casting a shadow over the hunt. I wasn't like a friend I know who shoots them out of his bedroom window. And I have read many times oh

Thanks for the post Flashpoint.
 
I absolutely was. And he was jumping up and down excited too...which makes me very happy. That “the hunt” motivates him. He killed his first deer at six and a half with a 12.5” suppressed .308 at 140 yards...we shoot a lot, I teach it, and I have steel to 600 yards off the back porch...and he has never lost the drive to go and excel.

Very proud of him, thanks.
140 yards, wow, that's a great shot. I remember when my son got his first deer at age 10. I had found a perfect spot for him halfway up a gentle hillside deep in the PA woods. However, he found another where it seemed to me to be too open and almost on the trail he would have been overlooking. I tried to talk him out of it but he insisted, so I thought "well he'll just have to learn" so I let him choose the spot he wanted. I moved off maybe 125 yards. Actually it was a little hard just walking away from him and leaving him all alone for the first time especially on opening day of PA deer season.. I no sooner sat down and I heard a shot. So back I went and when I got close I signed him if he was the one that shot? He shook his head yes. I asked him again and he shook his head again, yes. So when we got close enough to talk I whispered again, "did you shoot??" He just looked at me and then pointed to a spot about 30 yards away. There was a really beautiful symmetrical 8 point buck. I just couldn't believe it?? So what else could I do but give him a big hug or. There was another boy around 13 that was hunting with us. About 35 minutes later he tagged a 6 point; his first also.. So the two of them found a couple of poles, tied the deer's legs together and with one on each end, they hoisted the poles and deer up on their shoulders and marched off together. Two kids with 2 bucks and 2 rifles struggling along not 2 hours into the season. He told me later that they passed by quite a few hunters on the way out who were pretty amazed at what they saw. As you know, seeing your son grow up like that, and embrace something that you love and can now share, means more than words can express.
 
It is a weapon that some say is the predecessor to the bow. It’s a long stick with a handle in the front, a channel on top and a backstop where a long arrow rests with the back against the backstop. It allows the thrower to apply force over time to the arrow thereby creating arrow velocities much higher than if you hand threw the arrow.
The "native Australians" ("Aboriginals") use a spear thrower called a WOOMERA. Hence the name of the rocket range in the outback.
 
Back
Top