I give up!

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum:

Red Owl

40 Cal
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
305
Reaction score
190
Location
Florida
I am not sure what your problem is exactly but for a quick check.
1. If the lock and trigger work okay OUT OF THE RIFLE.
2. Remove the set trigger and put some paper shims in the bottom of the mortise to move the set trigger farther away from the lock and try that. It is very common for a set trigger to be inlet too far into the stock. If it is too far in it will malfunction. It only takes a minute so try that.
 

Sun City

40 Cal
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
387
Reaction score
380
Location
Clear Lake Richland Parish
Hi Sun City!! I think you have hit on the perfect solution, i.e. just send it to Davis Lock with your description of the problem(s) you're having. In the way of unsolicited advice, I would send both the lock assembly and the trigger assembly. Good luck!!

I’ve talked with the folks at Davis and advised I am sending the Lock with the triggers and a letter with description of problem! Want to pay my respects and thank you to all for your help! I’ve learned how to disassemble and reinstall this lock during this episode! Again thanks to all!
Sun City (Rick)


Jayhawk (Dan)
Thank you!
 

Sun City

40 Cal
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
387
Reaction score
380
Location
Clear Lake Richland Parish
I am not sure what your problem is exactly but for a quick check.
1. If the lock and trigger work okay OUT OF THE RIFLE.
2. Remove the set trigger and put some paper shims in the bottom of the mortise to move the set trigger farther away from the lock and try that. It is very common for a set trigger to be inlet too far into the stock. If it is too far in it will malfunction. It only takes a minute so try that.
I will try this and I’ve got some .020” shimstock I’ll use! Thank you!
 

smo

70 Cal.
MLF Supporter
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
6,626
Reaction score
2,583
Location
Tn
Sun, will the gun function properly if the set trigger is set prior too cocking the hammer?

If I understood the op you were cocking and then setting the set trigger… just wondering if setting the set trigger first makes any difference….🤔🤞
 

Grenadier1758

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
Oct 9, 2004
Messages
7,856
Reaction score
5,211
Location
St. Louis, MO
According to several postings from @Sun City, the front trigger doesn't trilogy the sear even when the triggers are unset. I regret that I didn't recognize that the lock was a Davis lock or my replies would have been different. Five years ago the builder of Sun City's rifle should have verified proper function of the lock and triggers. That opportunity has passed and sending the lock to Davis is the best approach now. Someone else may have to adjust the triggers in the stock.
 

MSW

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
7,600
Reaction score
451
if the front trigger will not release the sear, and the lock falls to half cock on an intermittent basis, i suspect at least two problems.

try reinstalling the fly, and with the lock out of the mortise, see if it still falls to half cock... if so, reverse the fly and try again. perhaps a little polishing is in order.

as regards the trigger, this will take some tinkering, and i will defer to wiser members for the specifics... i would try marking material or lipstick to see if there is a rubbing problem... always a good first step.

good luck with your project ... remember: patience is a virtue.
 

Sun City

40 Cal
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
387
Reaction score
380
Location
Clear Lake Richland Parish
Sun, will the gun function properly if the set trigger is set prior too cocking the hammer?

If I understood the op you were cocking and then setting the set trigger… just wondering if setting the set trigger first makes any difference….🤔🤞
Yes! But I don't know if this would be a consistent situation for I'm still faced with the problem of the front trigger not activating properly! I believe Mr Davis can assist in solving this and I'll ship lock and trigger set to him tomorrow! And as Grenadier has stated I may need assistance in getting the trigger assembly working when in the stock! Maybe I've got enough sense to solve it.....time will tell! Thanks guys!
 
  • Like
Reactions: smo

smo

70 Cal.
MLF Supporter
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
6,626
Reaction score
2,583
Location
Tn
I may be wrong, but weren’t some locks designed so that the set trigger has to be set prior too cocking the gun vs setting it after the gun is fully cocked?
 

Grenadier1758

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
Oct 9, 2004
Messages
7,856
Reaction score
5,211
Location
St. Louis, MO
@smo, you are not wrong. Well, wrong on that its the trigger that has to be set so that the lock can be fully cocked. Many of the triggers seem to have a very high rear trigger lever that keeps the sear from entering the full cock notch. When the trigger is set the trigger lever is lowered eliminating the interference with the sear. This often seen with single lever set triggers.

I was able to buy a rather nice flint lock pistol at a very decent price after it lay on a trade blanket for weekend. It had received a lot of looks, but every one who picked it soon laid it back down. It had a single trigger. But it simply wouldn't hold at full cock. I had looked at it several times and even pulled the hammer back. There more I thought about it, I thought there must be something that I wasn't thinking of. Then I remembered my Browning Mountain Rifle and its single set trigger. The pistol appeared to be one that was made in the 1970's, maybe a little earlier. Got to thinking about how the trigger levers can be too high, preventing the sear from being able to go into the full cock notch. I pushed the trigger forward and felt the trigger set. I then pulled the hammer to full cock and the hammer held. The set trigger was hard to pull, but it functioned and the lock was quite sparky. By this time the price had dropped to a very reasonable level, so I paid the price. The set trigger is still hard to pull.

Came with the holster.

1633909671910.jpeg


The hard pull probably accounts for the left to right dispersion.

1633910138107.jpeg
 

dave_person

54 Cal.
MLF Supporter
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
3,755
Reaction score
3,895
Hi, Here is a thread that may help. Read all of it.

dave

 

Sun City

40 Cal
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
387
Reaction score
380
Location
Clear Lake Richland Parish
In testing the above explanation out I have a major problem! My Xray vision capability has run out because I've run out of Kryptonite and I can't see through this wood to determine where the trigger bar is in relation to the trigger parts!!
 

Grenadier1758

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
Oct 9, 2004
Messages
7,856
Reaction score
5,211
Location
St. Louis, MO
@Sun City, what you can do is use some other types of marker to spot the trigger bars. The cheapest is some light colored fingernail polish at the Dollar Store. With the lock out of the stock and the triggers in place, raise the rear trigger lever and mark the trigger bar that appears in the hole for sear in the lock mortise. Then do the same for the front trigger bar. Remove the triggers and you will see where the trigger bars contact the sear.
 

Grenadier1758

Cannon
MLF Supporter
Joined
Oct 9, 2004
Messages
7,856
Reaction score
5,211
Location
St. Louis, MO
@Sun City,

I pulled out my Davis lock and took the bridle off to show some visibility into the function of the fly.

1. Hammer down. The Fly is free to move in the mortise in the tumbler. The half cock notch is uncovered.
01 Hammer Down.jpg


2. Half cock. The nose of the sear has pushed the fly out of the way so the nose of the sear can enter the half cock notch.
02_Half Cock.jpg


3. Full Cock. The sear has passed over the fly, forcing the fly toward the half cock notch, covering the notch and presents the face of the rear bevel of the fly to the nose of the sear.
03_Full Cock.jpg


4. Sear is released and has pushed the fly to cover the half cock notch and because of the bevel in the fly, the nose of the sear will ride over the half cock notch as the tumbler is rotated by the mainspring. The sear is held against the tumbler by the sear spring. If the fly was not there then the nose of the sear would enter the half cock notch.
04_Falling.jpg


You can see the differences in the front and rear bevels on the fly. The rear bevel has to extend slightly below the face of the tumbler. See photo 1.

There's no way to turn the fly over.

In the final picture, I have installed the bridle, the lock is in full cock and the fly has been pushed forward to cover the half cock notch.

05_Full Cock.jpg


I hope these pictures clarify what is happening with the fly, sear and tumbler as the hammer is falling.

When the triggers are pulled unset, the nose of the sear is held away from the tumbler by the front trigger lever and can not enter the half cock notch.

Now I am waiting to be chided for leaving all those wood chips and dust all over the lock. They will be cleaned ut when I get to the next stage of the assembly of the rifle.
 

Norman Brooks

40 Cal
MLF Supporter
Joined
Mar 26, 2021
Messages
384
Reaction score
206
Location
Michigan
Could the sear be chipped in the fly area and not letting the tumbler go to the full fired position? Is the sear spring to stiff?
 

Sun City

40 Cal
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
387
Reaction score
380
Location
Clear Lake Richland Parish
@Sun City,

I pulled out my Davis lock and took the bridle off to show some visibility into the function of the fly.

1. Hammer down. The Fly is free to move in the mortise in the tumbler. The half cock notch is uncovered.
View attachment 99004

2. Half cock. The nose of the sear has pushed the fly out of the way so the nose of the sear can enter the half cock notch.
View attachment 99005

3. Full Cock. The sear has passed over the fly, forcing the fly toward the half cock notch, covering the notch and presents the face of the rear bevel of the fly to the nose of the sear.
View attachment 99006

4. Sear is released and has pushed the fly to cover the half cock notch and because of the bevel in the fly, the nose of the sear will ride over the half cock notch as the tumbler is rotated by the mainspring. The sear is held against the tumbler by the sear spring. If the fly was not there then the nose of the sear would enter the half cock notch.
View attachment 99007

You can see the differences in the front and rear bevels on the fly. The rear bevel has to extend slightly below the face of the tumbler. See photo 1.

There's no way to turn the fly over.

In the final picture, I have installed the bridle, the lock is in full cock and the fly has been pushed forward to cover the half cock notch.

View attachment 99008

I hope these pictures clarify what is happening with the fly, sear and tumbler as the hammer is falling.

When the triggers are pulled unset, the nose of the sear is held away from the tumbler by the front trigger lever and can not enter the half cock notch.

Now I am waiting to be chided for leaving all those wood chips and dust all over the lock. They will be cleaned ut when I get to the next stage of the assembly of the rifle.
Thanks for posting these! Really good explanation!
 

Latest posts

Top