How young to throw a tomahawk?

[TexiKan]

I am sure some of you have encountered a situation where either in a demonstration or public event that you have allowed others to experience their first attempt at throwing a tomahawk. Ever so often I get a parent who wants their very young child try it. Generally, the child can barely hold it. Safety can be a concern. What I want to do is to determine, fairly, a specific age and/or other factors that can be universally applied so that parents and children can understand. Would appreciate knowing how some of you have handled this.

I have considered a toy, rubber headed hawk but that would only demonstrate the throwing motion. Even so, how do you fairly determine they must use the toy one?

 

[Snakebite]

When my son was about 8 years old I bought him a "Tiny Tomahawk" from TOW. He got pretty good with it. It was always under a very controled environment that he was allowed to throw it. 7 - 8 years old they should be able to throw a baseball fairly well, that was kind of the criteria I used before I got it for him.

 

[Claude Mathis]

For me, it would be the size and strength of the child, not necessarily age. Do they look like they are able throw it? If it's border line, err on the side of safety and decline. A tomahawk is not a toy. IMO

 

[TexiKan]

Exactly right, Claude. I say that to the parents and point out it is an edged weapon/tool. I have used a weight that is about the same as a hawk and asked them to throw it first. This is to see if they have the arm strength. Most seem to be able to do that. Then I limit the number of throws. But ever so often we get the well meaning parent who thinks their young kid should experience this. Justifying beyond "I don't think your child is mature enough" can be an issue when you let another attempt it. Having been a teacher, I know how this can be difficult to determine with a fair and believable reason. It is a little more challenging to do than those park rides that stipulate "you have to be this tall to ride this ride."

 

[Rifleman1776]

Glad you asked. We started our sons pretty young. We lived near Friendship, they met and were inspired by the legendary Cricket. We bought the oldest boy an H&B Squaw hawk at about age 5, the younger boy at about age 3 a Mouse hawk. I think H&B has renamed those models since. The boys got to where they could use them but they really didn't have enough strength to make stick very often. Of course, close supervision was important. As the younger boy grew we got him a Squaw model also. Still have all of the hawks more than 40 years later.

 

[Okwaho]

For me, it would be the size and strength of the child, not necessarily age. Do they look like they are able throw it? If it's border line, err on the side of safety and deIMO

Here we have a classic example of a lawsuit waiting to happen.NO ONE under the age of majority {18-21} should be handling weapons of ANY kind without parental permission and remember that in many states parental waivers do not apply to children even when signed by one or more parents so that the site or persons conducting the activity is probably liable even though such permissions or waivers are signed by the parents with the best of intentions. I was once asked by a site if I would serve as a board member and after advising them of the dangers of persons {adults and children} being too close to the lane where there was tomahawk throwing I declined but did ask if I could pass out my business cards {Attorney}.Needless to say they were stunned. I don't recall what changes if any they made in their tomahawk throwing but I hope they had adequate insurance just as I hope is the case of several on here.The use of and handling of weapons and tomahawk throwing in particular can be extremely dangerous and as I said earlier I have seen several statements which have led me to conclude that there are lawsuits waiting to happen.I remember an individual who was demonstrating flintlock rifle firing using powder only BUT he was allowing children of about 9-14 to fire the weapon.

I carry a million dollar umbrella policy and recommend the same coverage for any spectators and especially where children of minority are involved to consider such coverage and I may be conservative in the amount I mentioned.

Tom Patton,Attorney

 

[TexiKan]

The situations we use are under the club insurance umbrella. We are very safety conscious yet talking about something does not interest as much as doing. In Boy Scouts, if we were never allowed to work with guns, knives and more, well, I guess we would be safe but not sure when and how we would learn to use those items.

Our club also hosts a "Family Day" where families come to the range and learn about the black powder hobby. They shoot and throw the hawk, too. We also have days when we help Boy Scouts earn their black powder merit badges, thanks to some grants that allowed us to purchase some rifles specifically for this purpose.

Rather than saying "no", I am looking at the best options to say "yes."

 

[necchi]

I'll be another one to tell you don't do it.
We used to allow Public to toss a few.
One year a young girl, 7`ish", stepped up to toss, followed instruction just fine,, but when she made her first toss,, she back-handed twisted her wrist in and smacked herself in the back of the head!!
And yes it did lift the scalp from her skull!!
Ambulance ride, Emergency Room and Stitches all came off the insurance but left a lot of people PO'd!

You make a valid point with Scouting, but in that situation the dynamics are different , you have a little more control and support.
With an Open Public Day you have no idea of background, some people are professional Lawyer seeking, litigious, money grabbing jerks. Literally looking for a way to sue someone.

If you must allow kids to toss I'd say set the age limit high, 10-12 and only if they can demonstrate some knowledge in handling sharp objects.

When folks ask to toss, just say;
These aren't toy's, it's serious competition,
Sorry, we're not allowed too. And tell them the grizzly story of the little girl that scalped herself.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I was told about 40 years ago that I threw a 'hawk like a girl.

Nevertheless, one thing to keep in mind, that many are decorative, and it's not a good idea to throw one having a striped maple handle.

 

[TexiKan]

I believe I will modify my instructional comments and be more selective about the option. Yes, just about anything in our hobby has had an accident. Heck, I even recall folks sustaining injuries just sitting down in a chair, building a campfire, setting up tents, etc., etc.

I am not looking at a situation where every kid lines up for this, although they see one throwing, they and/or parents think they should be allowed.

Each year we host an educational Rendezvous where schools come in to learn about that era. For at least eight years I have talked and demonstrated. By the third day, my throwing arm was aching. Last year I talked and demonstrated and gave one student the opportunity to throw a hawk. (generally 5th grade and older) The student I selected was the first one to answer some of my questions. NOW they are really interested when they see one of their classmates throwing.

I can't always get excited about the hobby if I only hear others talk about it and watch them. Involvement is always a key to learning.

 

[Rifleman1776]

In life 'stuff' happens. We cannot live in a padded closet nor can we raise our children that way. All we can do is our best. Denying living to a child is not far from denying that child life itself.

 

[necchi]

In life 'stuff' happens. We cannot live in a padded closet nor can we raise our children that way. All we can do is our best. Denying living to a child is not far from denying that child life itself.

:shocked2: What?
Yeah, I can do what I see fit with my kid,
But if you harm my child because of an improper act,,,, without a consent form like all rendezvous participants sign along with camp fee,,

I've been rendezvousin for years too, and for some reason public/flatlanders do get all excited about the hawk toss.
I learned I could pick up a dozen Crazy Crow Mouse Hawks for cheap and make a tidy little profit selling just a few dollars under most of the traders.
My 11-12yr old son would hang around the blocks and charge $1 for lessons and 3 tosses after they get their first stick, He'd come back with 20-30$ each day (he'd loose a few handles).
He learned a few things about people too,,,

 

[Rifleman1776]

necchi, I was going to make a sarcastic joke about you not protecting your boy by keeping him locked in a padded box..... :applause: But, lousy joke.
Good on you for giving him that kind of learning opportunity.
When my boys were still in early years of grade school they were helping me in my gun shop. They could talk guns (modern and ml) better than most of the customers. And, for negotiating they had a 'cute' advantage over the customer.
Later, here in Arkansas when they were in Jr. Hi. they were giving ml lessons to their teachers and principal at our club. They had the knowledge, self-disipline and safety concerns to do the job well. If they had been in that so-called padded box they would not have achieved the successes they reached in life. Yes, I'm braggin'. :grin:

 

[necchi]

I guess Texican will do what he want's, but he'll do so at his own risk.
My experience is that bad things can and do happen even with the best intentions, and parents today are less willing to accept responsibility when they can sue someone.
Rendezvous, Gun Ranges, Hunting clubs, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, 4-H,, even a Church Summer camp all require signing pretty darn specific waivers.
Not so with the general population during "Public days' at an event.

 

[TexiKan]

Thanks for the input and recommendations. My initial request was to determine the age and other factors to allowing a young child to experience tomahawk throwing. No, I did not ask "to throw" or "not to throw."

Having already worked with a wide range of ages, I wanted to establish some guidelines. Ever so often I have some help from other club members, too. I want to make it easier on them to determine if one is capable of the experience.

As previously stated, I have an education background and have worked with kids, regurlarly, througout my life. I believe I have a better than average experience in this so my intent on asking this question is to see what others have determined to be a good starting point and to see if I am reasonably close. Again, safety is important.

 

[rafterob]

My experience has been that 8 years is a good age, keeping in mind the broad range of differences in young children. Having a small hawk available for them to try would be advisable and only allowing children with direct parental supervision to participate.

 

[Rev_William]

While I can see both sides of the discussion on the age allowable keep in mind that once the kid sees something whether they get to throw at that time they will at some point get their hands on a sharp object and toss it with out supervision. I know all of us on here has done this so don't deny it. All we can do is make sure that proper technique and saftey is stressed no matter who is cofferdams a supervised throw.

 

[necchi]

All we can do is make sure that proper technique and saftey is stressed no matter who is cofferdams a supervised throw.

Oh Yeah, first thing I taught mine was how to hand one to someone else, the old Boy Scout way, Edge up, handle towards the other and don't let go until the other says Thank You, and ya don't say thank you till you have a grip.
Ahhgg, those are all just lessons,,

Another thing,
Give a kid his first hawk and the entire world becomes something that needs chopping or something that needs tossed at!

 

[flyfisher76544]

As a general rule, we do not let the general public "try" anything. Too many folks out there who are just chasing dollars. :shake: :shake: :shake:
Now my son has been throwing a hawk since he was 12(today is his 16th bday). But on a side note, he can also load and fire his flinter, start a fire with flint and steel and several other skills that most folks would deem dangerous. But he was brought up around these items and knows to treat them with respect and knows that they are weapons/tools...... not toys. :hatsoff:

 

[TexiKan]

Maybe key words should be "proper supervision." There is a big difference. If I gave the keys to a car to a teen and said, "here, start driving" well, you know what the outcome of that will be. Proper instruction and supervision are important. We do the same when we start allowing others to learn to shoot, too.

Ironically, there is a well known event in Kansas City, going on right now, called the Renaissance Festival. For a small fee folks line up to toss large axes. Not much instruction involved. They have been doing this for years-and I'm talking at least 30.

Another difference...as I said, I have instructed tomahawk throwers for some time. It is not something done infrequently. If I doubted my ability to do it, and do it well, I would not.