How would you rate this M1861's bore?

[dew9lei]

So, I took the advice from one of the members here and ordered a m1861 from a reputable source. I don't want to disclose the store's name because I don't know manure about muzzle loader so I could be super wrong about things.

This is how he described the bore - " The bore is quite good with sharp rifling and no major rust or pitting - this gun would be a great shooter! "

Im brand new to muzzle loaders, this is literally my first muzzle loader. But all I could see is rust spots and barely visible rifling (flattened, not defined) from the muzzle all the way to the end of the bore. I even put my finger inside the muzzle to feel the lands and groves but it's smooth to the touch...perhaps folks rate muzzle loaders differently? (On a side note my HanYang Gew88 has similar looking bore and it shoots up to 2-3 meters off where I aim to random directions)

I've paid only $1095 + shipping for it so perhaps this is the kinda bore condition $1095 should get? Can you pros please show me what a "good rifling" bore look like?



thank you.

 

[mushka]

I would say that you got lied to. Send it back if you can.

 

[2 shots]

did you buy this from stevie wonder?

 

[hawkeye2]

That bore is a New York city sewer pipe. Without seeing the rest of the gun I can't say whether it's worth $1095 or not but I would seriously doubt it. With a bore in that condition even in a decent 61 I'd knock $300 off the price. If you spent a lot of time cleaning it you could shoot it but not well. Hoyt can fix it but that's dumping more $$ into it. What's the "reputable source's" return policy?

1861s had shallow rifling for minies and it doesn't take a lot of rust to destroy that. Bores are rated the same whether they are loaded from the front or the back.

"The bore is quite good with sharp rifling and no major rust or pitting - this gun would be a great shooter!" He's either less than truthful or he shipped you the wrong gun.

 

[dew9lei]

That bore is a New York city sewer pipe. Without seeing the rest of the gun I can't say whether it's worth $1095 or not but I would seriously doubt it. With a bore in that condition even in a decent 61 I'd knock $300 off the price. If you spent a lot of time cleaning it you could shoot it but not well. Hoyt can fix it but that's dumping more $$ into it. What's the "reputable source's" return policy?

1861s had shallow rifling for minies and it doesn't take a lot of rust to destroy that. Bores are rated the same whether they are loaded from the front or the back.

"The bore is quite good with sharp rifling and no major rust or pitting - this gun would be a great shooter!" He's either less than truthful or he shipped you the wrong gun.

Good woods but some inlays are put in (likely in the 19th century) by its owner. Rusts here and there but nothing major, looks like some 0000 steel wool would fix it. And it's 100% mechanically functional. However I've not fired it yet.

The store has 30 days return policy but shipping isn't refunded and I need to pay return shipping. So I'm looking at losing at least $100 if I were to send it back.

can the rusts be cleaned off?

 

[dew9lei]

This is the picture he attached to the description. I'm pretty sure I have received the right gun coz the markings on the stock is very unique.

 

[hawkeye2]

That's not an 1861, its an 1863 Type 1. That's a rounded clamping style band, 61s had flat bands retained by a spring. The 61 ramrod had a swell to retain it in the stock and that's a straight rammer 63 style. The 63 bands were blued on the type 1 and that band looks to be blued in the photo but it could just be the photo. Later 63 bands were white. Any inlays and carving seriously detracts from the value. The only marks on the wood should be the inspector's marks and possibly regimental and/or state stamps (somewhat rare). The bore does look a little better in his photo but it's far from "no major rust or pitting".

 

[dew9lei]

Here is the entire gun from his description. So you are telling me not only the bore condition description is off, it's not even a M1861??

 

[hawkeye2]

Woah, entirely different model! That's an 1861 Special Model made under contract by Lamson, Goodnow & Yale which is quite different from an 1861 Springfield. In some respects it is closer to an 1863. There would have been an eagle on the bolster but it may have been faint or only partial so it may legitimacy have disappeared sometime when the gun was cleaned. The patina is fine on that gun and I would only worry about the red rust like around the rear sight. I have no idea of the values for a Special Model but I do stand by what I said about the inlays. It could be the light in the photos but it looks like the stock may have been refinished.

 

[dew9lei]

Woah, entirely different model! That's an 1861 Special Model made under contract by Lamson, Goodnow & Yale which is quite different from an 1861 Springfield. In some respects it is closer to an 1863. There would have been an eagle on the bolster but it may have been faint or only partial so it may legitimacy have disappeared sometime when the gun was cleaned. The patina is fine on that gun and I would only worry about the red rust like around the rear sight. I have no idea of the values for a Special Model but I do stand by what I said about the inlays. It could be the light in the photos but it looks like the stock may have been refinished.

Thank you very much sir for your detail reply! By paying only $1095 I fully understood I'm not getting anything of collection/historical value. But that bore tho...

 

[hanshi]

The lock is stamped 1863, for whatever that's worth. Those first bore photos tell me the barrel is trash and you didn't get what was described to you.

 

[kaotikross]

Better to get back $900 than be out $1k

 

[hawkeye2]

The stamp on the tail of the lock (Springfield & Special Models) is the year the lock was manufactured and not the model designation.

 

[dew9lei]

Update to the story. I've emailed the store last night and despite it's closed on weekends the owner called me this morning, explained and offered solutions (zero cost to me). So apparently he had two muskets with similar stock. He sold the one with sewer pipe bore but mistakenly sent out the one with the good bore. Then sent me the sewer pipe thinking it's the good one he didn't sell.

So case closed. And thank you y'all for your inputs! I really appreciate it!!