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How to get a Pietta 1858 remington to shoot well to 100yards and stop the caps falling off with recoil.

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Lord Roxdale

32 Cal
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
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Hi,
I have found an answer to cap throwing nipple issues... just file a thin groove around your nipple cones then crimp on with crimp fuse pliers your cci or number 10's 11' caps - it will crimp your cap on and stop them from falling off with recoil, a problem most cap and ball guns suffer from…
how to make an Italian repro 1858 percussion revolver shoot well…

 
Then how do you get the spent caps off? They won't all splinter and fall off.
 
They do fall off, i've put this system on both of my Pietta remingtons and it does work. It illiminates all the click click bang! situations on a range thus avoiding embarresment, hence why these guns arn't as popular in the UK as perhaps they ought to be with just careful loading and actually taking time to iron out the faults, the nipples should be everyones number one priority, as it will make the firearm safer and allow detonation of all 6 chambers and avoid confusion on a busy noisey range. Hence my idea. Go try it? It'll work. Happy and safe shooting to you.
 
If you use a quality nipple in the first place - you don't have that issue.
I do not have that issue on either one of my Italian revolvers.
Please explain the "confusion" part of your statement.....
AND - what does that have to do with making the firearm safer???
Crimping a cap while loaded on a nipple would be a safety issue -
I have never been "confused" by a misfire.
 
I've never had a problem with caps falling off, I just use caps that fit.
Thats the point of my idea, if you can't get the right caps for whatever reason, then these modified nipples fasilitate the use of all brands of caps not just whatever your gun usually takes. therefore making it a good idea, but I guess it comes down to personal choice. Stick with what you are happy with.
 
If you use a quality nipple in the first place - you don't have that issue.
I do not have that issue on either one of my Italian revolvers.
Please explain the "confusion" part of your statement.....
AND - what does that have to do with making the firearm safer???
Crimping a cap while loaded on a nipple would be a safety issue -
I have never been "confused" by a misfire.
Greetings,
in answer to your questions;
I'm speaking from the viewpoint of a gentleman shooter Living in leafy Surrey, England.
A world very different from the American shooter who perhaps has very different laws and restrictions not withstanding a total lack of caps, powders and other basic shooting items others take for granted. Let me explain...
You see, firstly in the Uk (post 1997 cartridge pistol ban), the only pistols/ revolvers we can shoot at a sensible barrel length (under 16inches) are muzzleloaders, which are exempt. This has many pros, and cons..the cons are that they are without saying, more high maintenance than say a cartridge nitro revolver, but, this aside because i just wish to answer your initial questions...
The cons are there are few ranges nationally where we can shoot these, and few guns shops that carry black powder or even the substitue black powders, caps are also very random and often a brand that you had singled out for use will then not be in stock for months maybe even a year because our pistol market is roughly at the last count just under 5,000 people out of a population of 67million, again, don't quote me on that , the Uk is ever expanding, ie more peope than there are actully houses.
The other problem is the guns...The revolvers we can get for under £400 are often lower range italian copies, none of which are well machined and often require a lot of gun smithing, they lye in the realm of the hobbyiest or shooter enthusiast who is like me prepared to either rebuild it or modify it, that is to say to slick it up and add improvements to it, be it asthetical or mechanical. then you have the medium range, things like modern Tauruses or Alpha Proj's with elongated barrels. Then the top end like a Westlake conversion or a straight Colt or Smith and wesson which start at £1000 and end up to £3,000 depending on what disipline of shooting you are doing and how much you want to pay etc...Most will have over a foot long bareel to them and some kind of shooting brace...
Which leads me to my nipple idea...Basically there were two things that needed adressing for my average ML guns, since Piettas do vary a lot in tolerances for both the guns the internal parts and yes the nipples too. Also along with this the width of the caps and diameters have variation in them too, hence my idea for a universal nipple which can take any cap regardless of the make, since i cannot guarantee that one cap i buy will be as good a fit as another.
The caps I would recomend for a Pietta remington standard blued 1858 model .36cal Navy with a 6.5"barrel and factory nipples would be the Long RWS 1055 brand they are excellent, but usually all i can get hold of is cci 10's 11's and remington 10's which also aften would get thrown from the gun with recoil. My idea allows any cap to be molded on with crimp pliers and stay on until all 6 chambers have been fired, which for me, is a huge leap in reliabiliy and safety, because chain fires can happen from the back of the cylinder when an arked spark from a cap thats detonated can in theory jump to a bare nipple which has thrown its cap....which in itself is anoying as you might only get two shots off the other have all been thrown onto the floor, like i said unsafe, unreliable and more than frustrating if you expect all 6 to go off. My idea illiminates this.
The confusion bit, and i'm sorry if you were confused by this...Purely was a loose social reference to the fact that at our National Shooting centre at Bisley NRA there are a breed of RCO'S who take great sadistic pleasure in pointing out whether a shooters weapon in their eyes is "manure" or not....Which is not sportsmanlike, or polite, and actually causes shooter anxiety where the sportman literally looses his nerve or composure after one misfire after another and having to obey the usual 30second rule, thus adding to "confusion" from the shooter who then has the stress of a) clearing a live gun or partilly fired gun infront of a waiting audience, and b) having to peer down a partially loaded gun to assertain which chambers need re-capping, again with my idea this just illiminates this from happening. Lastly caps whether they are by CCI, Remington, or RWS will not explode unless the head of the cap is hit... so pinching a cap or in my case denting a cap onto a groove in my cones will not cause a premature combustion and therefore is safe.
Lastly, in conclusion, what I do with my gun may inspire others or not, i don't care either way, i'm not gaining anything from this post, or my invention, its purely my own novel opinion, if you don't like my idea, thats fine, but don't dismiss something you havn't even tried.
Yours Cordially,
Roxdale.
 
Hi,
I have found an answer to cap throwing nipple issues... just file a thin groove around your nipple cones then crimp on with crimp fuse pliers your cci or number 10's 11' caps - it will crimp your cap on and stop them from falling off with recoil, a problem most cap and ball guns suffer from…
how to make an Italian repro 1858 percussion revolver shoot well…


Great job adapting to what you have available to you.
 
Greetings,
in answer to your questions;
I'm speaking from the viewpoint of a gentleman shooter Living in leafy Surrey, England.
A world very different from the American shooter who perhaps has very different laws and restrictions not withstanding a total lack of caps, powders and other basic shooting items others take for granted. Let me explain...
You see, firstly in the Uk (post 1997 cartridge pistol ban), the only pistols/ revolvers we can shoot at a sensible barrel length (under 16inches) are muzzleloaders, which are exempt. This has many pros, and cons..the cons are that they are without saying, more high maintenance than say a cartridge nitro revolver, but, this aside because i just wish to answer your initial questions...
The cons are there are few ranges nationally where we can shoot these, and few guns shops that carry black powder or even the substitue black powders, caps are also very random and often a brand that you had singled out for use will then not be in stock for months maybe even a year because our pistol market is roughly at the last count just under 5,000 people out of a population of 67million, again, don't quote me on that , the Uk is ever expanding, ie more peope than there are actully houses.
The other problem is the guns...The revolvers we can get for under £400 are often lower range italian copies, none of which are well machined and often require a lot of gun smithing, they lye in the realm of the hobbyiest or shooter enthusiast who is like me prepared to either rebuild it or modify it, that is to say to slick it up and add improvements to it, be it asthetical or mechanical. then you have the medium range, things like modern Tauruses or Alpha Proj's with elongated barrels. Then the top end like a Westlake conversion or a straight Colt or Smith and wesson which start at £1000 and end up to £3,000 depending on what disipline of shooting you are doing and how much you want to pay etc...Most will have over a foot long bareel to them and some kind of shooting brace...
Which leads me to my nipple idea...Basically there were two things that needed adressing for my average ML guns, since Piettas do vary a lot in tolerances for both the guns the internal parts and yes the nipples too. Also along with this the width of the caps and diameters have variation in them too, hence my idea for a universal nipple which can take any cap regardless of the make, since i cannot guarantee that one cap i buy will be as good a fit as another.
The caps I would recomend for a Pietta remington standard blued 1858 model .36cal Navy with a 6.5"barrel and factory nipples would be the Long RWS 1055 brand they are excellent, but usually all i can get hold of is cci 10's 11's and remington 10's which also aften would get thrown from the gun with recoil. My idea allows any cap to be molded on with crimp pliers and stay on until all 6 chambers have been fired, which for me, is a huge leap in reliabiliy and safety, because chain fires can happen from the back of the cylinder when an arked spark from a cap thats detonated can in theory jump to a bare nipple which has thrown its cap....which in itself is anoying as you might only get two shots off the other have all been thrown onto the floor, like i said unsafe, unreliable and more than frustrating if you expect all 6 to go off. My idea illiminates this.
The confusion bit, and i'm sorry if you were confused by this...Purely was a loose social reference to the fact that at our National Shooting centre at Bisley NRA there are a breed of RCO'S who take great sadistic pleasure in pointing out whether a shooters weapon in their eyes is "manure" or not....Which is not sportsmanlike, or polite, and actually causes shooter anxiety where the sportman literally looses his nerve or composure after one misfire after another and having to obey the usual 30second rule, thus adding to "confusion" from the shooter who then has the stress of a) clearing a live gun or partilly fired gun infront of a waiting audience, and b) having to peer down a partially loaded gun to assertain which chambers need re-capping, again with my idea this just illiminates this from happening. Lastly caps whether they are by CCI, Remington, or RWS will not explode unless the head of the cap is hit... so pinching a cap or in my case denting a cap onto a groove in my cones will not cause a premature combustion and therefore is safe.
Lastly, in conclusion, what I do with my gun may inspire others or not, i don't care either way, i'm not gaining anything from this post, or my invention, its purely my own novel opinion, if you don't like my idea, thats fine, but don't dismiss something you havn't even tried.
Yours Cordially,
Roxdale.
So mostly what I read in your long winded explanation above is that pistols in England are not as dependable as the identical pistols everywhere else...?????
And if you have a misfire everyone treats you like an imbecile?????? Geeezzz I think I will take England off my bucket list of places to visit in retirement. I wrote France off a long time ago even before I retired.
 
So mostly what I read in your long winded explanation above is that pistols in England are not as dependable as the identical pistols everywhere else...?????
And if you have a misfire everyone treats you like an imbecile?????? Geeezzz I think I will take England off my bucket list of places to visit in retirement. I wrote France off a long time ago even before I retired.
Lol, I live here, save your air miles buddy. Don't bother with here. By all means visit Scotland, at least you can get a decent drink there!
 
Personally in the UK I would stick to single shots.
With all the issues over supply I could probably get just as many reliable shots off in near the same time anyway!
I also would not go to ranges, full of opinionated snobs. Now if I could own and legally hunt with a pistol I would be get one but as I can't thanks to the same kind of expert you find on a range I can't! So stuff 'm!
 
For the Pietta 1858, Remington number 10's always work (for mine) and never come off. Kranks sell them and will send them in the post. Eighteen squid carriage fee i think but i tend to buy a thousand or two at a time, if they do not have them in just set up the e-mail alert they come in quick enough.
I appreciate you have mentioned Remington 10's do not work with your Pietta, i recently bought a replacement set of SS Pietta nipples, they are perfect for the Remington caps.
Shooting accuratly to 100 yards. I shoot to 50metres, not massively accuratly, but i never have a miss off the target. At 50metres to get a 12" group i use 17 gr 3f, a lubed wad and round ball. I am aiming high. More powder will bring the aim point down but you may suffer on accuracy.
I like your experimenting to find what works for you, i do not shoot to100 as that is what rifles are for but why not, give it a go.
Cheers for the video
 
Last edited:
For the Pietta 1858, Remington number 10's always work (for mine) and never come off. Kranks sell them and will send them in the post. Eighteen squid carriage fee i think but i tend to buy a thousand or two at a time, if they do not have them in just set up the e-mail alert they come in quick enough.
I appreciate you have mentioned Remington 10's do not work with your Pietta, i recently bought a replacement set of SS Pietta nipples, they are perfect for the Remington caps.
Shooting accuratly to 100 yards. I shoot to 50metres, not massively accuratly, but i never have a miss off the target. At 50metres to get a 12" group i use 17 gr 3f, a lubed wad and round ball. I am aiming high. More powder will bring the aim point down but you may suffer on accuracy.
I like your experimenting to find what works for you, i do not shoot to100 as that is what rifles are for but why not, give it a go.
Cheers for the video
Glad you liked it, just showing what can be done, hollow based bullets will definitly tighten your groups up. if your using a .44 pietta then a webley mk6 conical bullet will work ok, again with 3f.
 
Hi, i am loosing track of what i have tried so far.
Equal on accuracy though are a 143 gr .457 round ball and an EPP-UG .455 big lube bullet each with a lubed wad under it. I have an excess now of beeswax so i will lube up the big lube bullet like it was intended to be used and see how that goes. Each at 50 metres is in at 12".
 
An interesting modification. Can you get those pliers into the nipples on a Remington? Thanks for the post.
Hi,
you would need to dremmel out slighty the pocket that the nipple(s) sit in, then swap over to a rotary fine sanding disc, the metal type, then putting your chosen nipples (i used stainless steel) but it can be a factory type it doesn't really matter...The factory ones are a bit softer so easier to file or cut the groove on, you can use a small desk vice to hold the nipple cone steady, then just zip your coarse dremmel disc round in a circular motion at the top end of the nipple, by half a mm, the idea of this is like putting a very heavy crimp into a greese grrove on a pistol cartridge pre WW1 9mm and .455 cartridges i've seen have in some cases either a slight ring that pressed the brass case from the outside into a corresponding canular groove on the lead bullet on the inside or in some case 3 or even 4 punched in dimples, so my idea is an adaptation this time applied to a percussion nipple, and once the nipple reccess is wide enough to allow the crimp pliers in - £4 from hobby craft, or wallmart for a few dollars...its easy to then (squish on the cap of your choice) into place where it will sit tightly until the gun is fired. The whole process slows up the re-loading process, but the aim here isn't speed, its reliability of all 6 shots going off. If you didn't fancy dremmeling out your cylinder pockets thats okay, you could always just get the pliers from ebay and file with a flat file the
tip of the jaws of the pliers to then fit in freely horizontally around your cap to squish it into place, you'll know you've done it when a dent like ring appears below the head of the cap, appearing a bit like a jar of Marmalade in shape. The cap will hold this shape even after firing except that the base of the cap will be split into 4 a bit like a Badminton shuttlecock falling off the nipple apon detonation. The whole mod will take about 40 minutes to do including 6 nipples, depending on how you work and the tools you have available. If you don't have a dremmel you can just use a fine sharp needle file and do it manually. Enjoy!
 
Hi, i am loosing track of what i have tried so far.
Equal on accuracy though are a 143 gr .457 round ball and an EPP-UG .455 big lube bullet each with a lubed wad under it. I have an excess now of beeswax so i will lube up the big lube bullet like it was intended to be used and see how that goes. Each at 50 metres is in at 12".
Try a Webley mk6 conical HB bullet, Lyman do a mold for it...home cast it then use your favourite lube on it, if you like experimenting? :) Or, whatever works for you, no such thing as the perfect load...only in the mind of the owner.
 
Shooting at 100 yards, are you wanting to shoot off hand or off the bench?

1. Learn to shoot well at 25 yards.
2. Learn to shoot well at 50 yards.
3. Learn to shoot well at 75 yards.

Shoot a lot.
Dry fire a tremendous amount.

Instead of trying to shoot over the bull (covering the bull up with the front sight) at 75 and 100 yards, put the bull on top of the front sight, and tilt the pistol down to get the elevation you need at 75 and 100 yards. This way the bull is not covered up.

Put your target on a really large piece of paper so you can see where the balls are going. Another way is if you can find a safe place, put a one white (1) gallon jug in a pond so you can see where the balls are going.

Have fun!
 
Shooting at 100 yards, are you wanting to shoot off hand or off the bench?

1. Learn to shoot well at 25 yards.
2. Learn to shoot well at 50 yards.
3. Learn to shoot well at 75 yards.

Shoot a lot.
Dry fire a tremendous amount.

Instead of trying to shoot over the bull (covering the bull up with the front sight) at 75 and 100 yards, put the bull on top of the front sight, and tilt the pistol down to get the elevation you need at 75 and 100 yards. This way the bull is not covered up.

Put your target on a really large piece of paper so you can see where the balls are going. Another way is if you can find a safe place, put a one white (1) gallon jug in a pond so you can see where the balls are going.

Have fun!
Yep, its all about the practice! :)
 
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