how much prime to use

[Col. Batguano]

Not knowing much about the chemistry of the subs, it would seem to indicate by your fizzie story that they are a progressive burning powder, like smokeless. And of course, the greater the pressure, the faster the burn rate in smokeless. That's why very small changes in powder weight can make HUGE differences in pressure. Real BP doesn't work that way. Generally, increased pressure does not significantly increase the burn rate with that stuff.

 

[bangfxr]

2FF is what I use as both priming and load. I follow Scott's manual of arms and after tearing cartridge prime by pouring enough to fill the pan and close frizzen and put on the stall. This works in my .54 cal, musket, rifle and pistol without any issues.

 

[Zonie]

I can't say what 777 does but Pyrodex does burn out in the open air much like smokeless powder so yes, in that regard it does act much like smokeless powder.

Unlike smokeless powder, it seems to have some sort of buffering agent in it so when it fires in a closed container like a gun barrel, larger powder charges don't increase the breech pressure much more than a increase of black powder would do.

For instance, a powder load of GOEX 2Fg powder under a patched .490 diameter roundball produced a breech pressure of 2900 psi to 5300 psi for a increase of 83 percent when the charge was increased from 50 grains to 80 grains .

The same increase of Pyrodex RS powder from 50 to 80 grains caused the breech pressure to increase from 5000 psi to 7100 psi for a 42 percent increase.

(The pressure differences between the GOEX 2Fg and the Pyrodex did not make for any great differences in velocity. The two 50 grain powder charges produced velocities that were within 26 fps and the two 80 grain powder charges produced velocities that were within 75 fps of each other.)

Lyman data was used.

Smokeless powder on the other hand can make drastic changes in pressure with very little change in the powder charge weight.

One well known pistol powder raised the breech pressure by over 300 percent when the powder load was increased only 2.9 grains. (10,000 psi to 34,000 psi)with basically the same bullet.
(Alliant Powder data)

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Has anyone EVER been able to make the subs work as priming powder? I know it's reputed they don't work well, but will they EVER work? It would seem that witht he sparks at 2000 degrees, and the flash point of the subs around 850, that the math would certainly indicate they would, in theory work. I'm not going to waste my time trying (I have enough to keep straight and manage at the range as it is to conduct science experiments).

Hi Bat...,
I had a chance to time a sub called Black Mag Flash (I think). I read an article in MB where the author thought it would work as priming powder. He said that while he had not fired a flinter for 20 years, he thought it was pretty fast. (That sentence was my first clue.)

I contacted him and asked for a sample. I offered to to do a comparison between priming powders. I told him I thought it would be fair to compare Flash to the best, and mentioned Swiss Null B.

By this time, in years of timing, I have numbers for everything from Null B to Goex cannon grade powder. BTW Null B will run .030 to .035 second to ignite. Goex Cannon comes in at .080 seconds. Black Mag Flash ran .140 seconds or almost twice as slow as Goex Cannon.

During the time I had the sample, I had Steve Chapman watch it ignite, well at least sometimes. We noticed that the ignition was so slow that we could see the sparks momentarily before ignition took place. I have never seen sparks when igniting priming powder before. Ignition is so fast that one can't see sparks before ignition, but you could on this stuff.

So does it work? Well, I doubt if shooters would like to prime with Cannon grade, but Goex Cannon is almost twice as fast as Black Mag Flash. I wrote back and said it wasn't ready for Prime Time. A few months after this, the plant had an explosion. I don't think they rebuilt.
Regards,
Pletch

 

[stubshaft]

I remember "back in the day" (25+ years ago) there was an additive called "Foxfire" for priming. It was a yellowish, finely ground powder that you could add to subs (only Pyrodex back then)to make priming powder. I recollect that their factory also blew up.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Zonie, totally off topic, but 2.9 grains of smokeless is a major increase. especially if one is shooting a pistol cartridge that may only call for 3-5 grains.

One would have to be really looking to blow themselves up to use smokeless in a front stuffer.

 

[tenngun]

I dont have a lot of experience with flinters, and I have been frustrated by lack of quick ignition.

I was watching a video from another member shooting a squirrel with his. He was using a small priming container with a spring loaded tip that when pushed down drops a small measured amount of powder for the pan. He showed that he uses 4 measured amounts for his pan. In the video his rifle did not hesitate when he fired it.

I have always just used one of those little premeasured amounts in the pan, figured that was the right amount.

Anyone else have experience using one of those things and how much powder do you put in the pan?

I am thinking that I just might of figured out the source of my ignition problems, too little priming powder

Thanks

Fleener

I've been shooting rock-in-the-locks more then fourty years. Mostly its all I shoot or hunt with. My guns all go off instantly, I feel no hesitation between trigger pull and boom.
Yet I am often at range and will often let some suppository gun shooter pop of a round or two. All of them say words to the effect that its so neat, they pull the trigger, get this flash and then boom.
Huh??? What are they seeing that I'm not? Then I remember my first time of shooting a flinter. It was a Bess. I pulled the trigger, there was a delay while that big lock went from china to new York, a flash, I had lunch, then took a little nap, then boom.
Above are all these little tricks, but I prime from my horn, 2f or 3f depending, tap it in till it looks right, and shoot. Instant boom.
Some of all these little tricks is just getting use to shooting 200 year old technology.