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How common were the "Squirrel Calibers" before the 1800s?

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That configuration of thick heavy barrels and small caliber bores is consistent with the rifles used for the very popular Over-the-Log matches or Chunk Gun matches after the Civil War. The rifles were shot prone with the barrel resting on a log or a chunk of wood. The distance shot was generally 60yards and wind effects were minimal.
 
Me too....... When I moved to central Pa. , in 1970 , there was an old guy had 15 or so , late era locally built original longrifles and a couple half stocks hanging for sale in his garage. These rifles had two obvious characteristics , their staining was light orangish in color , and the rifled bores were small calibers. oldwood
 
While small calibers might have been rare in North America there was a long tradition of small bored bird & small game rifles on the Continent (Europe) and Russian fur traders /trappers in what s now Alaska & the NW coast apparently to kill animals in traps. Mid European Tchinkes had small bores again for bird & rabbits ect . The ' Pea rifle' becomes the 22 of today and is still termed a' pea rifle '. I recently used a US made 290 cal barrel to make a Baltic Bird rifle makers name was G Tyler probably a small manufacturer but very well rifled & shoots remarkably well on 15 grains .
Rudyard
 
I have any original "Plains" rifle made in Michigan with a 1" barrel bored .40 caliber. I have seen a number of half stock plains rifles with 1-1.25" barrels bored .40-.45 caliber. Why? Frankly I don't know. You would think the would be at least .50 caliber. Also have a beautiful, original, southern rifle (circa. 1850) with a 48" barrel bored .36 caliber. On the other hand, I shoot a .25 and .30 caliber for small game.
 
In the early 1970's, a number of these half stocks showed up for me to repair. They were mostly around 1" across the flats , and .32 cal. to .45.. I read an article years ago, perhaps in Muzzle Blasts magazine , stating that m/l target shooting was popular before cartridge guns took over the sport of target shooting . You're gun might be from that era. I'm not sure of the dates ,but someone out there can help us w/that......oldwood
 
Ned Roberts wrote about his uncle picking up a battle field 30 cal rifle during the ACW, and was Ned's first rifle. But he spoke of using conical or Sugarloaf bullets.
I've often wondered when the conical came into use? Could a small bore rifle use a prb for small critters and a conical for the bigger stuff?
 
Eterry......I would guess the m/l half stock target rifle era might have been short. perhaps 1855 to 1870. Truelly, I've researched much about m/l's in general , and found not a whiff of smoke about this era. My dad was on the hunt to get modern , shoot farther/faster than the folks from even early cartridge era , so he would have been no help. As a kid maybe 7 or 8 I have no recollection of us discussing anything about the end of old time m/ling. Born a little too late.....oldwood
 
. He was noted for killing 600+ black bears . He hunted w/ dogs to bring the bears to bay , but his gun was the fascinating part. It was a side by side percussion rifle in .36 cal.. Must have done a lot of neck or head shootin'. My hat is off to him. I wouldn't want to get that closed to a ****** off bear. oldwood

I would say, that this double .36 cal rifle most likely had a very bent barrel.......bent barrel from head bashing those poor old angry bears. He also must have had the very first version of "running shoes" or really good tree climbing equipment.
Seriously, I have seen many .28 & .30 cal. long rifles, and probably as many .36 to ..40 cal. rifles. Powder and lead was expensive and hard to get the farther a person lived or travelled from larger communities.
Much cargo that was sensitive to damage was often wrapped in soft sheet lead. Some of you older geezers can remember when tooth paste was sold in lead wrapped tubes. I think that was before we heard about lead the dangers of lead.
Hell, even your old water pipes were lead.
 
Old wood, perhaps you are referencing MESACH BROWNING, there is a book about him called 44 years in the life of a hunter, he roamed the woods in the western parts of Maryland and what is now West Virginia, I have hunted those areas a lot. Very good read. As too rifle cals. I always thought the rifles run on the smaller size in the eastern mountain region and did not actually become larger until the western migrations due too the larger and more dangerous game species.
 
I know of many .32-40s from the 1840s onwards.

Told to me by an ancestry of blacksmiths; also gun tinkerers the caliber was the last thing on the makers mind. The size of the mandrel that formed the barrel was typically standard, but through use and wear and tear it would get somewhat deformed and the rifling bench would clean it out and true it. That is why when a new barrel was finished, the mold would be built for that barrel. As far as calibers, results was all over the place, I know of a shotgun that comes in at 14 gauged.
I had forgotten the caliber verses lead weight factor until Zonie bought it forward in a previous posting. .36 caliber seemed to become real popular in the mid 1800's, by that time machining had become more precise, I suppose because of Eli Whitney. Stands to reason to me that ,32 is close to 5/16" and .40 is close to 3/8" 1/2" and 3/4" for heavier applications such as axles were available, but cost more to ship. River rat, hillbilly smithys had to be frugal.
 
So was a sub .45 caliber unheard of before 1800? Or was it just rare?
"Rifles of former times were different from those of modern date ; few of them carried more than forty-five bullets to the pound. Bullets of less size were not thought sufficiently heavy for hunting or war. "
Joseph Doddridge Notes on the Settlement and Indian Wars of the Western Parts of Virginia and Pennsylvania from 1763 to 1783.

So that means that a rifle firing a ball of roughly 155 grains..., which is close to about a .48 caliber rifle. NOTE he writes "few" not "never" so he did know, or had seen rifles perhaps as small as .45 caliber. He also mentions this was a difference then and not in 1824 when the book was published. The author was originally from a small community where his recollections stem, so it would be tough to draw a conclusion for all of the United States in the 18th century. In fact he notes the book only covers "Western Virginia" and "Pennsylvania"

LD
 
What I’m calling thick and heavy would be around 1 to 1-1/4”. Heavy for a small bore these days.

I think that's typical of the older barrels that were hammer forged by the builder. The Bogle rifle is 1" ATF and 46 caliber. The hammer forging of barrels was common well into the 19th century by solitary builders in their small shops.

We have gone off track from the OP since the original question was regarding pre 19th century rifles.
 
A history of what happened and what is exactly the truth during the developing years in eastern America , is tough to understand. . Doddridge's work combined w/several other testimonies written by others , is all we have to conject and extrapolate "the facts" from those years. I've studied those and other pertinent volumes for 60+ years and most of it leaves only more questions than answers.
So why not make a sub .48 cal. rifle. Who's to prove there wasn't a few around during the early days of our occupation of America. ...............oldwood
 
Ned Roberts seemed to prefer small bores and picket bullets elongated acorn shaped patched balls but still small calibers dos'nt seem the best choice but that's what he wrote. The head case who shot 600 black bears .Why ??. I shot one I had a need but allways regretted it .And never troubled any others I came apon . Comicaly one night I was asleep under my moskeeto net camp, the fire had burnt low when I suddenly awake to hear sniffing next to me I sat up and hurled a loud string of terrified abuse towards the creature .It took the hint & took off .So I got the fire going and went back to sleep this was on the lower Homathka river upstream of Cumsack creek logging camp where next day I set on as camp carpenter till the snow stopped logging ( I had walked the rivers s from Tatla Lake 11 days Moslely creek via Tiedman glacier & 'Murderers bar' & Waddington Canyon (Only added for British Columbia dwellers possible interest ) Rudyard
 

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