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How common was military surplus in the 18th century?

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I haven't researched the Northern Colonies that far back on this subject, but the earliest Virginia began selling surplus arms was in the late 1690's. The legislature got the idea to buy "surplus arms" from the Tower of London and have them available for low cost for the poorer members of the militia to purchase.

Good plan, eh? Well not really.

During this period, most men aged 16 to 60 were in the militia. Many, if not most of those in the younger age bracket were still apprentices and had no money to purchase arms.

If a poor man could afford a gun at all, he was not going to buy an overly heavy military musket with a larger bore than he needed. Instead, he bought a cheap trade gun. There may well have been at least some matchlocks in that batch of arms as the British were still buying new matchlocks in the 1690's. NO one was going to buy an old matchlock, if he had any money at all, because it was almost impossible to use for hunting/sporting use. Cheap trade guns at least had snaphaunces or more likely early English Flintlock locks.

Virginia also was not storing public arms all in one place or even good secure places. So the majority of those arms were not sold and may have burnt up in a fire at one of the storage sites that burned down in the first decade of the 18th century.

"In 1714, the General Assembly had asked Governor Alexander Spotswood to build "a good substantial house of brick" precisely to protect the colony's arms and munitions. The occasion was the shipment of powder and muskets from Queen Anne's government in England."

These arms were to replace the older ones destroyed by fire and/or outdated and lost to poor storage.

Over the years before the AWI, some older arms may and probably were sold from the stores at the "Publik Magazine" from time to time, but unfortunately there is little or no record of those sales.

Gus
 
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My understanding that using anything with the “kings mark” being used/carried by civilians could face prosecution for “thievery from the king”. Even militia members? Doesn’t make sense.
 

Sam squanch

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Lest we forget ,when Gen. Lee's forces , were told to go home from the surrender at Appomatox Court House , Va. , the retiring Southern troops , were told to go home , and keep their arms , to protect themselves , family , and property. That would have put some used rifled muskets , and also smooth bores out there. I have no guess how much Southern Army guns and equipment was sold, abandoned to someone to use as surplus.
Grant allows officers to retain sidearms. The enlisted were disarmed. Walking home in a reb uniform carrying a weapon would have got you shot or hung. If you did smuggle one home, the reconstruction occupation troops would bust it up if they found it.
 
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British Ordnance policy on government arms in the 18th century was when new arms were issued, old arms were turned back in to them. They reconditioned the old arms or cannibalized them for parts or salvage scrap, depending on the age and condition of the old arms.

If stocks were broken beyond repair, they allowed Ordnance Workers at the Tower of London, Portsmouth and Dublin to make tools and tools handles from them. What wasn't deemed usable for that was burnt during the winter to heat their work areas.

If Barrels were burst, they would make tools from the Iron or other things, if possible. Barrels with worn out muzzles were cut down, reproofed and used in Sea Service arms. Unserviceable Bayonets were often saved for making tools for the workers, as there was so much steel in the blades. Brass parts were saved for assembling new muskets, as long as they were the correct sizes and shapes. If not, they were melted down and made cast into new parts for then current production arms.

Reconditioned older arms were normally issued first and even to first line Regular Regiments or the British Navy, depending on the type of arm needed. As reconditioned arms got really out of date, they could be sold or given to Colonial Governments.

The British Civilian gunmakers offered less costly "paramilitary" arms "to the trade" or generally for sale to civilians who did not want to pay higher prices of Military Quality arms.

Gus
 
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The earliest gun ordinance I have ever found was in 1760 and done by the City of Boston. The ordinance decreed that (ship's) cannon, gun powder and hand grenades (think period Molotov cocktails) kept in inventory for sale to civilian ships were now required to be stored in the Chandler's and other Warehouses dockside only. They specifically mentioned NO storage in personal homes.

Gus
 
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I believe that the "hand grenades" were likely "grenados, a hollow cast iron shell about the same size as a 4lb shot, filled with powder & a fuse in a wood tube, driven into the fill hole. Useded on both ships & land. I have one which navy divers recovered from the river water at Fort San Lorenzo in Panama. A bit heavy to throw far, most likely dropped from a ship's fighting top or a fort's wall or lobbed over a low wall by a strong grenadier.
 
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I believe that the "hand grenades" were likely "grenados, a hollow cast iron shell about the same size as a 4lb shot, filled with powder & a fuse in a wood tube, driven into the fill hole. Useded on both ships & land. I have one which navy divers recovered from the river water at Fort San Lorenzo in Panama. A bit heavy to throw far, most likely dropped from a ship's fighting top or a fort's wall or lobbed over a low wall by a strong grenadier.
Hi Coot,

When I first read the Ordinance, I too thought those kinds of grenades were the ones mentioned. While that kind of grenade was offered for sale, I learned glass body grenades filled with noxious materials (stink bomb) or more often some kind of inflammable or incendiary fluid (molotov cocktail) were much more often sold to merchant ships as they were so much cheaper than iron cased grenades.

Gus

PS You may be interested in this rather new research on early hand grenades.
 
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My understanding that using anything with the “kings mark” being used/carried by civilians could face prosecution for “thievery from the king”. Even militia members? Doesn’t make sense.
If the arms had been issued to militia members and they were doing their duty, it wasn't a problem. However, if they damaged by neglect, lost, sold or took off/deserted with such marked arms, they were in big trouble. The exception to this was if their issued weapon was broken or lost in combat whilst doing their duty, then the arm was "written off" to combat loss.

However, one could also get into BIG trouble if one had broken/unserviceable weapons or parts without authorization. Ordnance Workers got into trouble when they got caught taking broken parts from Ordnance work shops. One case in London was of an Ordnance Worker who got caught with three broken bayonets and some broken brass parts. He tried to make the case they were of no value to the Ordnance Department as they basically were just junk. He admitted he wanted to make some tools from the broken steel bayonet blades. Well, the Ordnance Department didn't buy it and the judge sentenced him to prison.

The most trivial case I've ever read of was one Ordnance Worker got caught with a well worn/used haversack with the King's broad arrow mark on it. Haversacks were considered expendable items and were issued every six months, because even when washed, they got badly stained from uncooked rations and sometimes mold in no time. It seems an "expended" haversack showed up in a batch of arms turned back into the Ordnance Department and knowing the above, the Ordnance Worker washed it and used it as a "carry all" bag. No one in the Ordnance Department had a problem with him using it for that INSIDE the Ordnance Work Shops, but when he tried to go home at night with it, they arrested him for theft of the King's Property. He didn't go to prison, but he did have to pay a fine that was deducted from his wages.

Gus
 
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Eutycus

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Many excess British guns were sold off to developing nations (south and central America) after the Napoleonic Wars. The Mexican Army had India Pattern Brown Bess's during the Texas Revolution.
I was about to say the Mexican Army was carrying surplus Brown Besses but DixieTexian beat me to it.
 
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Perhaps the largest amounts of intentional and unintentional (captured) military surplus happened during King George's War and the FIW.

The French Fortress Louisbourg was one of the most extensive and expensive European Forts when it was finished in 1740. It sat off the Nova Scotia shore just a wee bit on Cape Breton island. Actually the distance to land was sort of on the order of a wide moat. It served two main purposes, 1. To protect the French Fishing and Sealing Industry and 2. It was the main storage Arsenal for French Military (French Marines/Regulars and their Militia) and Gift Arms for Native American trade for all of Canada.

What is so surprising was it had two main weaknesses. The first was it was so far from Montreal or Quebec, that if it got attacked, reinforcements were much too far away to do them any good. The second and worst weakness was though it had excellent defense and offensive capabilities from the Sea side, they did not design any real defensive crenelations in the rear to defend against land attack.

During King George's War (the North American part of the War of the Austrian Succession) New Englanders were extremely keen to take the fortress because of competition in the fishing and Sealing Industries, plus French Ships from there sometimes threatened British American commercial ships. With the exception of a small number of some British War and Supply Ships, this was the first All American good sized Amphibious Operation. (Some Americans held temporary British Officer Commissions and that's why sometimes historians mention some "British Officers," though that's a mistake thinking they were British.) They came in the landward side of the island, drug some field guns onto the hills behind the forts and banged away with NO French Cannon fire to contend with. They took the Fortress, emptied all the arms out of it (which probably was a large number, but it seems they didn't record how many) and probably took them back for distribution to the Colonies from whence the troops came and may have burned the fortress. However, since it was largely made of stone, burning wasn't going to destroy the Fortress in a major way.

Fortress Louisbourg was given BACK to the French at the end of the War of the Austrian Succession in trade for some border towns in what is now Belgium. France repaired the fortress and filled it back up with relatively new made weapons as much or more than had been stored there the first time. Then the Fortress was once again the bane of the British American Fishing and Sealing Industries. I imagine that wasn't real popular with New Englanders even though they got a major amount of "free, surplus" trade and military arms and equipment from taking it.

Not long after the French got Fortress Louisbourg back up to snuff and restocked, the French and Indian War broke out in North America in 1756, as part of the global Seven Years War. This was a much more serious war with greater numbers of troops on both sides than King George's War had been, as both sides recognized the winner of this War would take over Canada. However, when Braddock got defeated and his forces almost massacred, it put British America in a real pickle.

Governor Shirley of Massachusetts having been a British Officer, was chosen as the Commander in Chief of British forces in North America to replace Braddock. He was expected to raise at least two Regular Regiments here and that included arming and equipping them, along with all the Militia forces called upon for campaigns in North America. This was a Herculean task by itself, especially as there were so few muskets and military equipment in Colonial Armories. He called on British Ordnance to supply him with 50,000 stands of Arms, as the minimum to meet the requirements for both offense and defense, but there was a huge problem with his request.

British Ordnance didn't have quite that many stands of arms in total and they were expected to arm all British Forces on the home islands, the additional new forces for British Regiments that were to fight on the continent and other places worldwide - including North America. SHEESH. British Ordnance did the best they could, but America was a fairly low priority in that war, at least at first. So British Ordnance sent 10,000 stands of Arms........... the first major surplus arms quantity given to the North American Colonies. However, those stands of arms arrived here in really poor shape.

Many complaints were recorded of the Arms arriving here in extremely rusty shape, the locks wouldn't work or spark, bayonets would not fit, holes in the Cartouche Boxes were too small to hold Cartouches (Paper Cartridges) etc., etc. Many of the Muskets had come from emergency purchases by the Ordnance Department during the first years of King George's War and they were NOT up to British Military Standards even then, but that's the best that could be purchased at the time. Well, now it was 12-14 years later and beyond the normal service life of British Muskets at the time of only 10-12 years. YIKES!

Gotta give Governor Shirley credit though, he had done a lot of work organizing the first attack on Fortress Louisbourg in 1745 and may or even probably began the same thing in the FIW until he was recalled in 1757. OK, there was a DIRE need of military arms and accoutrements and they were not coming from England, except for the numbers of paramilitary arms the individual colonies could afford to buy from the Civilian Gun Trade. So no matter if it was initiated by Governor Shirley or not, a second amphibious assault was sent against Fortress Louisbourg in 1758.

(As I write this, I'm reminded of and wonder if the British/British American Forces sang something similar to the WWII song of "We did it before and we can do it again........on their way to the Fortress?" LOL)_

Believe it or not, the combined British/British American Forces used the same basic battle plan used before in 1745. They must have been astounded the French had done virtually nothing new to protect and defend the rear of the Fortress!!! History does record they were astounded to find around 15,000 stands of arms and these would have been much newer models than had been there in 1745. In one fell swoop, they had captured 50 percent more of better quality arms and accoutrements than British Ordnance had sent. Talk about a period Blue Light Special!!!

Unlike what happened in 1745, we know more about the disposition of the French Arms captured there in 1758. First, it seems that this time, every soldier who wanted one, got a complete stand of arms for himself clear and free. We know that British Regular Light Infantry troops took to the French Muskets over the British Light Infantry Carbines issued to them as they found the French Muskets "more robust than the British Carbines." They emptied out the rest of the arms and divvied them up to active forces and to the northern colonies. So this was the second major unintentional/captured surplus arms quantity in North America in the 18th century.

Some of those arms were used by Patriot Forces at least in the early part of the American Revolution.

Gus
 
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Hi Coot,

When I first read the Ordinance, I too thought those kinds of grenades were the ones mentioned. While that kind of grenade was offered for sale, I learned glass body grenades filled with noxious materials (stink bomb) or more often some kind of inflammable or incendiary fluid (molotov cocktail) were much more often sold to merchant ships as they were so much cheaper than iron cased grenades.

Gus

PS You may be interested in this rather new research on early hand grenades.
Thanks Gus - I have read Laceys Thesis. The glass grenades reminded me of the ceramic ones that were made in Japan as part of a last ditch effort to defend against the expected homeland invasion. You could still find them in Sasebo in the early 1970s.
 

Brokennock

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It's still incredible to me how many people seem to not understand that 18th century is NOT 18-something that 18th century is 1700 through 12-31-1799. That the Civil War was fought in the 19th century.
 

Loyalist Dave

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Keep in mind also, in the 1700s hard cash was a rarity to the common people., not to mention distribution of surplus.

Um well by the turn of the 17th century, as early as 1699, "tobacco notes" were pretty much a thing of the past, and money was quite plentiful, at least in Maryland...,

From The Archives of Maryland Online:
1699

And the honble Thomas Tench Esqr doth Engage to take Care to pvide the sd Biskett & Pork for their [Maryland Rangers] Provissions &c And the Comittee thinks it necessary that the Honble Tho: Tench Esqr have power to Draw upon the Treasurer for what money he shall have occassion for the purchaseing of the same


And further it is the opinion of the sd Comittee that the said Rangers be allowed halfe a Crowne p day they finding themselffs pvissions and that the Commanders be paid and allowed pportionably


Resolved that a Bill be prepared to Lay an Imposition of twenty Shillings p poll on all negroes and Irish Serv's Imported into this Province to be paid in ready money in this province & to be directly applyed to the Defraying of the Publick Leavy and to noe other Use what soever


Put to the Vote if the Imposition shall be 3d or 4d p Gallon & Caryed by the Majority of Voices for 3d Resolved that a Bill be prepared imposeing a Duty of 3d pGall on all rum wine or Brandy wch shall be Imported Either by Land or Water from any the Islands into this Province

We find money being paid for provisions, money as salaries for Rangers on Maryland's frontier, money charged to those with servants and/or slaves, and taxes on on imported rum, wine, and brandy, by the gallon. The Age of Piracy would extend until 1730, and there was plenty of cash, in fact "pieces of eight" were actually Spanish dollars cut into 8 pie-shaped pieces, when sufficient smaller coins might not be had. By the middle of the 18th century, George Morgan in his frontier trading post in Kaskaskia, was not only dealing with British Money, but also with Spanish, Dutch, French, and New York currencies.

Now how much cash folks might be able to make...,oh save on hand, ...., is another thing, but they did use it. There was much less barter going on than a lot of folks realize.

LD
 

Loyalist Dave

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If the arms had been issued to militia members and they were doing their duty, it wasn't a problem. However, if they damaged by neglect, lost, sold or took off/deserted with such marked arms, they were in big trouble. The exception to this was if their issued weapon was broken or lost in combat whilst doing their duty, then the arm was "written off" to combat loss.
BUT in some colonies, they were quite serious, if the private tried to pull "a fast one" and "lost" his arms but instead sold them....,

AND BE IT ENACTED, That any non-commissioned officer or soldier who shall attempt to transfer a right to the said arms in his custody, or to any part thereof, by sale or otherwise, to any person or persons, accompanied with actual delivery, as well every person so offending as every person purchasing or concealing the said arms, knowing the said arms to be the property of the public, shall forfeit and pay, for each offence, the sum of forty dollars, to be recovered in the name of the state of Maryland,

The private was also in trouble for "loss" if not convicted of selling the stuff...,

AND BE IT ENACTED, That in case of loss of arms, satisfaction for the same, to be awarded by a company court-martial, shall be made by the person or persons who shall have received the same, to the state, at the following prices: For a musket, twenty dollars; for a ramrod, one dollar; for a bayonet, two dollars; for a cartouch box, two dollars; for a pistol, five dollars; for a sword, ten dollars; for a pair of holsters, five dollars; and for a rifle, thirty dollars.

IF the soldiers were lazy and just didn't mainain the stuff...,

AND BE IT ENACTED, That each non-commissioned officer or private who shall have been or may be armed by the public, shall be fined not exceeding one hundred cents for each article of his accoutrements which shall be out of order; and it shall be the duty of the captain or commanding officer of every company armed as aforesaid, to note down, at every muster, each and every breach of this law, and make report of the same to the presiding officer of the
company court-martial.


LD
 
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