How Big ya need …to feel Safe?

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I'm not sure I would feel really safe with any muzzle loader rifle, regardless of caliber, if there is a big furry with sharp teeth "thing" in the area. If you miss or wound the critter and really pi$$ it off, how fast are you at reloading? That's my honest opinion. I'm not that great of a shot. I know they did it "back then" but the mountain men doing it were, as a rule, much younger than I am today. If you are so inclined to do it anyway, I would advise hunting in partners. Good luck with whatever your decision is.
 

Mtman725

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I hear this ALL the time, I live in grizzly country, worked in AK on the west coast fish guiding for years, been woofed ,charged, investigated, smelled thru a wall tent in the middle of the night. An all out attack last 3 seconds from start to finish. So you have 1.5 seconds to ID your target and get off a killing shot, bleeding out is chewing on you as he a or she is do it. And as the bears range grows and it will and is. There's going to be more and more in counters . Best is to hunt in pairs, if someone gets something down,Everyone pitches in till its been done, keep a clean camp, and be bear aware. The last thing you want to do is shoot. Beleave me on this, you haven't got a clue as to how fast it happens. If your seeing grizz sign get out of there stay away from kill sights,.I'll be using a 50 or 54.
 
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Africa58double

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I'm not sure I would feel really safe with any muzzle loader rifle, regardless of caliber, if there is a big furry with sharp teeth "thing" in the area. If you miss or wound the critter and really pi$$ it off, how fast are you at reloading? That's my honest opinion. I'm not that great of a shot. I know they did it "back then" but the mountain men doing it were, as a rule, much younger than I am today. If you are so inclined to do it anyway, I would advise hunting in partners. Good luck with whatever your decision is.

I can reload quick, Yet not quickly enough I’m sure.




I hear this ALL the time, I live in grizzly country, worked in AK on the west coast fish guiding for years, been woofed ,charged, investigated, smelled thru a wall tent in the middle of the night. An all out attack last 3 seconds from start to finish. So you have 1.5 seconds to ID your target and get off a killing shot, bleeding out is chewing on you as he a or she is do it. And as the bears range grows and it will and is. There's going to be more and more in counters . Best is to hunt in pairs, if someone gets something down,Everyone pitches in till its been done, keep a clean camp, and be bear aware. The last thing you want to do is shoot. Beleave me on this, you haven't got a clue as to how fast it happens. If your seeing grizz sign get out of there stay away from kill sights,.I'll be using a 50 or 54.


So what’s the alternative - Don’t use a muzzleloader- don’t hunt that State/Area?

I am aware- in a blink of a eye how fast game can attack.

So…. Don’t be a Muzzleloader enthusiast hunter?
 

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Penske

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Worked for the railroad during summers between college years in Utah,Wyoming,Idaho always carried rem 870 with slugs. Keep the hand guns home. Or if you must, file all the sharp edges off before going out hunting so when the bear takes it and shoves it you know where it won't hurt.
Really, just read the encounters Louis and Clark had with GBs they had muzzle loaders in .54 and up and you will understand how under gunned you are. Multiple shots to bring them down.
Just my two cents.
 

Mtman725

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Hell we hunt in pairs doing rifle season, use common sense, carry bear spray in bow season, hunt in pairs bow hunting, going back in to retrieve any someone is packing a modern large caliber rifle, a hand gun in a large modern cartridge, and in the cook tent as a modern pump shotgun with solid rounds hanging on a post. Elk camp ~ Like I said 50 or 54. But that's me20201027_112015.jpg
20211025_172500.jpg
 
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Africa58double

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Once again…. Keep in mind this thread is about our Muzzleloaders being used while hunting Elk and or other non dangerous game in a area that has Grizz. What would a Blackpowder Enthusiast who wants to use his muzzleloader be using? Caliber, projectile etc.

Let’s also keep the Modern Firearms info to a minimum. That’s not what this subject is about.

As a Guide assistant to a Professional hunter in Africa, I was the Back up…. And know the dangers of what can happen.

Large bore .58 and 2 shots of 445gr or 600gr is my approach With a 45 cal revolver as a back up for close encounter.

Of those who hunt elk or whatever animal in the Area of Grizzly…

What do you use or hunt with? One fella said Bear spray and a .54
 

Africa58double

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Hell we hunt in pairs doing rifle season, use common sense, carry bear spray in bow season, hunt in pairs bow hunting, going back in to retrieve any someone is packing a rifle .338,.375, hand gun 44,45 Colt, cook tent as a 12 ga with slugs hanging on a post.Elk camp ~ Like I said 50 or 54. But that's meView attachment 118094 View attachment 118093

This ^ Very informative and what I’m looking for. Info about how others approach the issue.
 
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Mtman725

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I know a WHOLE 2 Months !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The last 42 years in bear county. Pack what your confident with an shoot straight. A 50 or 54 round balls. Is what I am using.
 
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Oh I Hear ya. “Go prepared”… And I intend to. I may be Headed to Montana this year. Large population of The Griz up there and it got me thinking, Hence the Thread. Wanted to know what others thought about it.
Yes I’m a revolver guy- Yet since I’m a Advocate for the Black powder… I just can’t be bringing any side arm. So I Just picked up a short 5.5 ROA. I’ll get a 255 Mould for it and develop a stout 777 charge for it. Up close/ I think that’s “Well Healed” with the Double and some heavy charged big conicals.View attachment 117991
Remember, save the last shot for yourself.
 

Mtman725

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Worked for the railroad during summers between college years in Utah,Wyoming,Idaho always carried rem 870 with slugs. Keep the hand guns home. Or if you must, file all the sharp edges off before going out hunting so when the bear takes it and shoves it you know where it won't hurt.
Really, just read the encounters Louis and Clark had with GBs they had muzzle loaders in .54 and up and you will understand how under gunned you are. Multiple shots to bring them down.
Just my two cents.
The Gods truth right here.
 

Africa58double

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For 25 plus years I’ve traveled to Wyoming, Utah,Montana, Colorado to Hunt with centerfires. Oh and yes for 2 two months I was a assistant to a Professional Guide in South Africa.
Point being I’ve had my experience with large dangerous, so im not a novice to this subject.

Yet I am transitioning to Blackpowder hunting only- and looking for information on how others approach the subject.

Is that not sufficient hunting experience?
I know a WHOLE 2 Months !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The last 42 years in bear county. Pack what your confident with an shoot straight. A 50 or 54 round balls. Is what I am using.
 

Mtman725

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A58 Visting and living here are two total different things, why ask if you know so much????? As I said pack what your confident in. And you'll have a good trip.
 
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Worked for the railroad during summers between college years in Utah,Wyoming,Idaho always carried rem 870 with slugs. Keep the hand guns home. Or if you must, file all the sharp edges off before going out hunting so when the bear takes it and shoves it you know where it won't hurt.
Really, just read the encounters Louis and Clark had with GBs they had muzzle loaders in .54 and up and you will understand how under gunned you are. Multiple shots to bring them down.
Just my two cents.
But once Drouillard figured out how to place the killing shot, he was recording one shot kills in the Journals. Other bear encounters usually required more than one shot. How many did the Corps of Discovery need to kill the first grizzly they encountered? 15? or more?
 
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I never hunted where the browns were, only black bears and always carried my ROA loaded to the max with 4F and a RB as a back up. Now to your question and the area and what you might run into you only have to look to the right. I guess one of these would give me plenty of up close comfort. The 6" Diablo double barrel shotgun.
 

Africa58double

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Mountman- What’s your delema here? You provided excellent information about the subject and explained how you use a .54 and hunt in pairs… etc.

I stated that was the kinda info I was seeking- what others do, what calibers they shoot and information about the title of the thread.

If being polite and participating in a Gentleman’s conversation is difficult, please seek discussion elsewhere.
A58 Visting and living here are two total different things, why ask if you know so much????? As I said pack what your confident in. And you'll have a good trip.
 

Loyalist Dave

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Hell we hunt in pairs doing rifle season, use common sense, ...,

I like the idea of having a backup along with you, and even the idea of that backup having a modern rifle. I would go out of my way not to stress Ol' Caleb, but sometimes bears are ornery. A lot of the guys that hunted dangerous game and wrote about it in the 19th century mention having HUGE caliber rifles for round ball (James Forsyth thought an 8 bore or 4 bore the best choices), but they still had guys backing them up.

LD
 

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