How Big ya need …to feel Safe?

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I've hunted deer and elk in Griz country with a .54 cal Hawken. Never felt undergunned - until an experience I had in Yellowstone Park while fly fishing. Since that encounter I've continued to carry my .54 for deer and elk. And - I carry bear spray for the off chance of a bad encounter with a bear. I would recommend the same.
 
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I've hunted deer and elk in Griz country with a .54 cal Hawken. Never felt undergunned - until an experience I had in Yellowstone Park while fly fishing. Since that encounter I've continued to carry my .54 for deer and elk. And - I carry bear spray for the off chance of a bad encounter with a bear. I would recommend the same.
Yep and wear bells, that way when they find where the bear took a dump they can smell to see if it stinks like hot sauce and dig around in the pile to find the bells and definitely say yep that was him. I read somewhere that grizz has developed a taste for spicey fare. 😁
 

Eterry

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The double 58 with RCBS minies or something of equal weight in front of a healthy dose of fffg. I'd trickle a pinch of it in the nipples, cause Murphy might decide to travel with you.
You only need minute of Elk, so groups aren't as important as ft/lbs.
When we hunted in Colorado handguns were a big no no, except in camp.
 

Africa58double

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I favor the .58 R.E.A.L Bullet. In my Double barrel it’s very accurate- I cast em out at 445gr and they are approximately 8-9 BHN. Very accurate at 80 yards. In my opinion- Similar to the power of a 12g 1oz Slug. That’s a good amount of Power. I like the idea of Trickling some into nipples. Got myself Some good RWS caps and Swiss 2F.

Yet that’s what I’m taking….. What would you fellas take into that territory? I’ve heard a .54 - That certainly would be a good bit of Powder.
The double 58 with RCBS minies or something of equal weight in front of a healthy dose of fffg. I'd trickle a pinch of it in the nipples, cause Murphy might decide to travel with you.
You only need minute of Elk, so groups aren't as important as ft/lbs.
When we hunted in Colorado handguns were a big no no, except in camp.
 

Johnny Tremain

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If Im up tar in dangerous areas I always carry my modern rifle for portability. I have two single shots, but they stay at home and keep the safe safe.
A 430gr flat nose will down any critter in north America, or any where else.
 
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Eterry

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I favor the .58 R.E.A.L Bullet. In my Double barrel it’s very accurate- I cast em out at 445gr and they are approximately 8-9 BHN. Very accurate at 80 yards. In my opinion- Similar to the power of a 12g Slug. That’s a good amount of Power.
My RCBS minies are 500 grs, so we're in the same ballpark. Let's hope you don't need it for defense
 

Africa58double

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If Im up tar in dangerous areas I always carry my modern rifle for portability. I have two single shots, but they stay at home and keep the safe safe.
A 430gr flat nose will down any critter in north America, or any where else.
That’s a Muzzleloader? I have plenty of Modern Rifles and such…. Yet this Topic is about What Muzzleloader, Caliber, Projectile Etc. would be best.
I do Appreciate the Post tho.
 
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looking out my living room glass door a few years ago.
i live just south and west of Ranch Roper and we have enough Griz we would be glad to share with any of you fine folk.
while hunting even with a .54 cal i carry spray.
even with a vaunted breech loading round, punching through a Griz heart, he is going to kill you. they have been known to operate for 3 minutes with their heart nothing but tatters. Like Cape Buffalo they have so much vitality that they don't know they are dead.
spray operates successfully by creating a change in their attitude. from "I am going to kill" to "I can't breathe, i can't breathe"
many won't agree and if over the last 3 decades i had gotten 100.00 from every one that has argued against spray in favor of their favorite super tyranasaurious killer, i could buy any original long rifle i desired. and i desire them all!

a cns shot is your only perfect downer on a Griz. or even a Black Bear. those i have killed my share of and some of them have been a hairy.
when i was younger i prided myself of fast draw speed and accuracy. i shudder at the thought of trying even one perfect stopper on a animal that is running with the speed of a horse, straight at me, bobbing its head up and down like a tempest in a teacup, and making a gawd awful sound fit to void my bowels.
did i mention the best bullet would be UDAP bear spray? ymmv ps. these kept the wife and myself cooped up in the house for 5 hours. and one of these was later shot raiding a neighbors hog pen.
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Africa58double

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Serious Critter problem ya have there. I’m sure you know about them first hand, obviously. I have read about Bear spray… and how it can have excellent results. Yet I can’t see a Ton of fur and Claws turning away at full charge- tho I’m sure that probably is what happens in a cloud of that stuff.
My only Question to that is …. If it’s such a great deterrent, Why is it not used In Africa? Or Asia- I don’t recall seeing that at my Professional hunters office by the case stacked up in the corner next to his Double rifles.
Just saying -
Think I’ll stick with 445 gr at approximately 1500 fps or 600gr at 1250.
If I can , I’ll grab a can or two.
 

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When you need the gun you have seconds to bring it
on target. A large handgun, max charged, say a ROA
with Kaido conicals would be there when you need it--
whether lethal or not--- many attacks happen at night in Camp,
a handgun is fast and ready--long guns are clumsy and
not handy.
 

Africa58double

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I agree with camp and being armed , At all times in that environment. It only makes sense to be prepared. Guess I was thinking… While hunting for Elk with your Muzzleloader, and Say walking through a Small wooded area You run into a Nasty Grizz. Are you Ok with your Heavy Conical .50 caliber Flint or Percussion to solve the problem?
As much as this can be a Fantasy and Easily dismissed by some- it CAN very much be a Reality for Some fellas who hunt these areas. I may be In that hunting situation and Am going prepared- perhaps over prepared….

I once in Africa was very close to a Mother Rhino and Baby - all of us got very humble very quickly, and we had Many Modern Weapons.

Just wanted to get some Feedback on the Subject, Humbly.
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Serious Critter problem ya have there. I’m sure you know about them first hand, obviously. I have read about Bear spray… and how it can have excellent results. Yet I can’t see a Ton of fur and Claws turning away at full charge- tho I’m sure that probably is what happens in a cloud of that stuff.
My only Question to that is …. If it’s such a great deterrent, Why is it not used In Africa? Or Asia- I don’t recall seeing that at my Professional hunters office by the case stacked up in the corner next to his Double rifles.
Just saying -
Think I’ll stick with 445 gr at approximately 1500 fps or 600gr at 1250.

If I can , I’ll grab a can or two.
possibly because they have the same feeling and attitude. don't get me wrong, personal protection is as intimate as underware choice. everyone needs to do what makes them comfortable.
i live where every time i step out of my house i scan to see what i may be running into.
wither it is a Moose wanting to stomp my tender body into paste, a Griz that thinks i offended him , a pack of wolves looking for some old stew meat, or a black bear feeling froggy, I have to be aware before i can react.
I, 90% of the time will be armed but not Alway's.
i always (during the out of bed season) have spray on my belt.
try having someone run at you from behind from a distance of 15 yards, while you are trying to get offhand accurate shots at a target in front of you.
most of the time you will come out second. YMMV
to really answer the op question though, i would want a .32 prb. and a friend i could shoot in the leg so i could outrun him!
 
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Africa58double

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I’m in agreement with you , Be prepared.

As I was a assistant in Africa for 2 months on some very serious hunting ….It Was my job to be the back up, I can understand the thought process. Yet when seconds count, What will ya reach for or aim. Personal preference.


Regardless- I started this thread because we are Muzzleloader enthusiast and most likely hunt with them instead of the modern fast follow up shot rifles (Custom 375 Weatherby here) and want to know more on who hunts with what while in dangerous area. I’m transitioning to full Black Powder hunting and moving away from centerfire. I understand some will use a single shot .50 Flint and a can of bear spray. What say the rest of you?
possibly because they have the same feeling and attitude. don't get me wrong, personal protection is as intimate as underware choice. everyone needs to do what makes them comfortable.
i live where every time i step out of my house i scan to see what i may be running into.
wither it is a Moose wanting to stomp my tender body into paste, a Griz that thinks i offended him , a pack of wolves looking for some old stew meat, or a black bear feeling froggy, I have to be aware before i can react.
I, 90% of the time will be armed but not Alway's.
i always (during the out of bed season) have spray on my belt.
try having someone run at you from behind from a distance of 15 yards, while you are trying to get offhand accurate shots at a target in front of you.
most of the time you will come out second. YMMV
 
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Regardless- I started this thread because we are Muzzleloader enthusiast and most likely hunt with them instead of the modern fast follow up shot rifles (Custom 375 Weatherby here) and want to know more on who hunts with what while in dangerous area.




now to finally answer your question.
when i am hunting i hunt with a .54 cal and a conical. Percussion.
i have reloads in my shirt pocket in fast load containers.
i have practiced and can reload pretty fast. fast enough? :dunno:
but even if i can't i won't let that or the worry of getting the big chop from a critter stop me. just think of the bragging rights! none of my friends got eaten by a Bar!
 

Africa58double

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Perhaps we are a tad “Off” to be hunting in such close proximity to these dangerous animals with Weapons that are less than optimal.
Yet on the Grave stone under the Name they can say “Die Hard Muzzleloader hunter”. Talk about some bragging rites! 😆
 
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Never killed a bear, never wanted to after eating some. Camping in AK, had sow and two cubs within 25 yards. Them's some BIG critters. That double .58 looks good. Val Forget killed a variety of African game with a Navy Arms .58 Buffalo Hunter many years ago, but if I remember correctly, he had backup folks also.
 

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