Help with refinishing my muzzle crown

[oldwolf]

Recently I was fortunate enough to acquire a muzzle loading pistol, a model that I have been admiring for some time. The gun is in great shape overall, however the barrel crown needs to be cleaned-up. I am not sure how this kind of damage could occur, but it looks like a little work should shape it correctly.

I’ve read about using a brass screw head, grit, and a hand-turn drill. Also, I have looked at various tools available to dress crowns. The question I have is to see if you can recommend a methodology to achieve a nice-looking crown for this gun.

I am handy with tools so can tackle a project like this using hand tools. I don’t have a lathe. I wouldn’t be averse to having a gunsmith do this for me if that is the overall consensus.

I appreciate any advice that you can give me.

The brass screw method :

The first two images below I found on the web. The third is my barrel.
1) Factory crown
2) Custom barrel crown
3) My crown

 

[30coupe]

I've used the brass screw method on small caliber cartridge rifles, but I don't know where you might find a large enough screw to do that barrel. My first thought would be to just try some emery cloth and your thumb, using progressively finer grit. Make sure you turn both the barrel and your thumb to keep things even all the way around.

 

[Phil Coffins]

The last or bottom photo is exactly what I consider a great crown for muzzle loading barrel. As I read your note that is your barrel so I would leave it be!

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Hoppy Hopkins who made some of the best barrels available in the 1980's used a countersink with a 45 or 60 degree angle mounted in a brace and did it by hand, just lightly. Then he would fold a piece of emery cloth into a cone and put it on the muzzle and spin it a few times using a cone shaped piece of metal also mounted in a brace.. A seemingly crude method for a guy that made great barrels. It worked well. I have done several barrels that way over the years. Don't use a power drill it will spin too fast and chatter.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

That looks like the muzzle of a Patriot... Try using your thumb as mentioned. Then use a marble to finish it off. Very simple. Just take your time.

 

[oldwolf]

The last or bottom photo is exactly what I consider a great crown for muzzle loading barrel. As I read your note that is your barrel so I would leave it be!

That deformed area you see on my barrel at 3:00 (right below the sight) actually extends into the bore area. If I take a dental pick and lightly rub it across the deformation, from breech to muzzle, the pick hangs up right on that spot. I think I have no choice but to re-shape the crown until the deformity has been removed.

 

[30coupe]

I would be tempted to clean it up a bit with a needle file before the emery paper now that you've said that and posted this last picture. Looks like it took a hard fall and actually dented the muzzle. Going to take some work.

 

[just4fun63]

Have you considered “coning” the barrel? There’s a few threads on here on how to do it.
( I believe it was called releaving originally)
Just thinking out loud

 

[oldwolf]

Coning is an interesting idea.

 

[arcticap]

I would have a professional recrown it using the proper equipment even if it means sending the barrel to a muzzle loading repair shop.
It may not even be necessary to reinstall the front sight if they can reface the barrel with a minimum of rifling loss.
I can not see coning a pistol barrel as it would seem to destroy enough rifling for multiple recrownings.
Just make sure to inquire with the gun smith about his method and how you want him to perform the work.
You can send him a photo of your crown and ask him.
I wouldn't send it to just anyone who would use a hack saw if it's not necessary.

Here's 2 examples of muzzle loading repair shops and there are plenty of others.

1.--->>> https://www.northeasttradeco.com

2.--->>> https://www.muzzleloadershop.com/services-2/

 

[PluggedNickel]

At this point you may need to have a gunsmith fix that muzzle. I've had good luck using Brownells tool and lapping compound on muzzles with mildly buggered rifling. At this point though I agree a recrown by someone with the proper cutters and bushings to do it right is in order.

 

[bang]

Yes, you need to reestablish the symmetry. This is not just a clean up or polish. The damage needs to be removed evenly across the entire circumference.
I have know people to use a rotary ball by making a guide inserted in the barrel to put the shank of the rotary ball in then turn it by hand making sure the damage, if it's raised, gets cut first or if recessed gets cut last. But the guide has to fit very close tolerance.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Yes I didn’t zoom in and notice the deformed area. A slight crown with a gentle blending loads easy and shoots well. Seeing the enlarged photo the muzzle needs more then simple polishing. Setting back the muzzle about .030” then recutting a gentle radius can be best be done on a lathe but piloted cutters will do a good job as well. Buying the tools to do one job will make taking or sending it to a smith cheaper.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

While technical concentric cutting is always preferred, and it is critical for rifle precision accuracy, you have a muzzle loading pistol. Which is not only far less accurate by nature, is also subject to the most wear at the muzzle where you are addressing the problem. The unfortunate part of the mild steel used in such barrels is the ease of such damage. It is also because of that mild steel, easier to correct without the requirement of a lot of expensive tools. If you have access to Chuck Dixon's book about long rifle building, refer to the methods of barrel crowning in it. What you have can be easily corrected with a $6.00 tool from Ace Hardware.

 

[PluggedNickel]

Sorry, I didn't realize it was a pistol muzzle until another posted about it. Yes, I have had good luck with a hand crank old school drill and these tools from Sinclair or Brownells, the trick is to go slow, use cutting fluid on cutter and lapping or valve grinding compound on brass bit to finish. Will do up to 58 caliber:

The Bolts you mentioned are old style brass toilet seat bolts like these. The can work as well. Here I was making a shim for a short arbor on a Uberti Walker.

 

[oldwolf]

Thanks for the great discussion. I have contacted a local gunsmith that tends to specialize in competition firearms and has repaired a gun or two for me in the past. He definitely has the know-how, and the tools, just not sure yet if he will work on a muzzleloader. I will also check into the two shops mentioned above if this first contact is not fruitful. I am not ruling out working on it myself.

Does anyone know of a shop in North Carolina that can tackle this?

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Yours!

https://goo.gl/images/PofaVJ

in a brace or tap wrench, turned slow

https://www.harborfreight.com/3-piece-t-handle-tap-wrenches-38560.html

I would be surprised if the smith didn't do it this way on a muzzle loader pistol of soft steel

 

[Eterry]

Have you shot the piece? Does it shoot to your expectations? You may need to apply some Lever B to it...

I have a 58 Buffalo Hunter that has a slight lip on the crown like it was cut with a pipe cutter...I was prepared to recrown it until I shot it...3 shots at 50 yards touching...I'm glad I shot it first...I decided to LEAVE'R BE

 

[oldwolf]

No, it arrived this weekend and I haven't even yet cast any balls for it.

My local smith contacted me and wants some pictures of the full barrel before deciding if he can work on it. He needs to know if it will fit in his lathe.

Quote: "You would have to show pictures of the entire barrel as removed. It has to be chucked in a lathe so has to be round or hex with bore centered. From centerline of bore nothing can protrude more than 1".The damage was done with improper ball/projectile seating method/tools."​

 

[Eterry]

No, it arrived this weekend and I haven't even yet cast any balls for it.

My local smith contacted me and wants some pictures of the full barrel before deciding if he can work on it. He needs to know if it will fit in his lathe.

Quote: "You would have to show pictures of the entire barrel as removed. It has to be chucked in a lathe so has to be round or hex with bore centered. From centerline of bore nothing can protrude more than 1".The damage was done with improper ball/projectile seating method/tools."​

Well its your time and money, but I wont do anything to it until/unless I have shot it and see what happens.