Help with a T/C Cherokee issue

Discussion in 'Percussion Rifles' started by Susan Moss, Dec 9, 2019.

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  1. Dec 9, 2019 #1

    Susan Moss

    Susan Moss

    Susan Moss

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    Hi Folks-- just joined and glad to be here. I have been mostly shooting a T/C Renegade for the past decade or 2, in .50 cal. When the opportunity to pick up a .45 Cherokee came up a couple of years back I grabbed it. Nice little gun, light, not fancy, and it had never been shot from the look of it.
    Started with RBs over 50g, then worked up to 60g Pyrodex and the results were good, hunting accuracy, 2" groups @ 50 yards which is all the distance I would shoot anyway. Then I started casting REAL bullets for it, 200g, and they shoot great too. (Not so much in my Renegade but there is so little .45 ammo available I tried them and they worked).
    Are you with me? Here's the issue: the hammer pull is VERY hard, and the set trigger, when I use it, more often than not causes the hammer to land off-center on the nipple so the cap doesn't go off. If I don't use the set, the hammer mostly lands square on the nipple, but after 3 or 4 shots the nipple is so deformed by the pressure of the hammer that caps no longer fit onto it so I have to put on a new nipple.
    So-- what to do about this? Love the little gun, parts rarely available, nipples getting expensive.
     
  2. Dec 9, 2019 #2

    Grenadier1758

    Grenadier1758

    Grenadier1758

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    The difference in hammer fall between firing with the set trigger and unset is perplexing. There should be no difference in alignment.

    Is the hammer properly fit on the tumbler?

    Is the lock plate inlet tightly to the barrel?

    Are the lock bolts snug holding the lock in place?

    If those are correct, the hammer will have to be bent to center the nose of the hammer over the nipple.

    What nipples are you using that get battered so quickly?
     
  3. Dec 9, 2019 #3

    Eric Krewson

    Eric Krewson

    Eric Krewson

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    sounds like you have a bunch of stuff binding in the inlet, start with the lock, black it, (I like prussian blue) put it back in the mortise, tighten the screws and see where the binding marks are. Next do the same for the trigger assembly.

    Something I ran into on a TC trigger that had an incredibly stiff front trigger was the trigger bar looked like a washboard. I could barely set the front trigger off before I worked on it. I gently filed off the washboard and polished the bar with different grits of sandpaper on a block of wood finishing up with emery cloth and a buffing wheel on a dremel.

    Blurry picture but you can still see the washboard roughness on the part of the trigger I didn't' polish because it didn't make contact with the sear.

    tc rough trigger.JPG
     
  4. Dec 9, 2019 #4

    bubba.50

    bubba.50

    bubba.50

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    When ya get done checkin’ all that stuff, check the screws on the inside of the lock that holds the plate on that keeps everything together. They’re notorious for workin’ loose and when they do stuff can wobble around enough to cause a problem such as you describe.
     
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  5. Dec 9, 2019 #5

    Susan Moss

    Susan Moss

    Susan Moss

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    I started out using the standard 12-28 stainless nipples from October Country. Lately got Tresos in the hope they are tougher. I will look at all the suggestions given above-- you guys are a wealth of knowledge!
     
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  6. Dec 9, 2019 #6

    bubba.50

    bubba.50

    bubba.50

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    The only way for the hammer to change point of impact on thhe nipple is if somethin’ is loose enough to allow the tumbler to move around. This can also cause very heavy and/or erratic trigger pull. Tighten those screws on what is called the bridle plate.

    As for the nipple problem, quit dry-firing it.
     
  7. Dec 9, 2019 #7

    30coupe

    30coupe

    30coupe

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    Are you snapping the hammer against a bare nipple? I've never had one deform like that from firing with a cap in place. I could understand it getting beat up if the hammer is falling on the bare nipple though.

    I also wonder if some home gun mechanic decided the coil spring was too light and took it upon himself to replace it with a stiffer one, and perhaps in the process didn't get the screws tightened properly. One of the differences I notice between my TC Hawken with it's coil mainspring and the two Pedersolis I have with their flat mainsprings is how much easier the TC is to cock. If your TC is hard to cock, you definitely have some lock issues, most likely created by someone other than TC.
     
  8. Dec 9, 2019 #8

    Susan Moss

    Susan Moss

    Susan Moss

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    Took the lock off and tightened the bridle screws, one was a bit loose and one seems to be stripped won't tighten. I can find and replace those easily enough--I also found a "tumbler and fly (what are they for?) on ebay are those worth replacing? My Renegade cocks easily-- this thing takes a lot of work.
     
  9. Dec 9, 2019 #9

    Zonie

    Zonie

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    The tumbler is the part inside the lock that rotates. The mainspring pushes against it to cause this.
    It has the half cock notch and the full cock notch in it along with the fly. If your full cock position, half cock position and set triggers all work, you shouldn't need to buy a tumbler or a fly. (The fly is a very small part located in the tumbler that moves back and forth. It's job is to keep the sear (the part that engages the half cock and full cock notch) from entering the half cock notch when the hammer is falling from the full cock position.)
     
  10. Dec 9, 2019 #10

    Susan Moss

    Susan Moss

    Susan Moss

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    Got it, thanks.
     
  11. Dec 9, 2019 #11

    Susan Moss

    Susan Moss

    Susan Moss

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    So-- after taking off the bridle and reassembling, cleaning out the innards, I decided to look inside the lock of my Renegade for a comparison and lo and behold! My Cherokee is missing a sear plunger! I wonder if that could account for the inconsistencies I have been having -- now I just have to find one...
     
  12. Dec 9, 2019 #12

    FishDFly

    FishDFly

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    Try "The Gun Works", they have parts if needed.
     
  13. Dec 9, 2019 #13

    ppg1949

    ppg1949

    ppg1949

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    Welcome to the forum. Besides The Gun Works you may also try Classic Firearms Parts. Good luck.
     
  14. Dec 10, 2019 #14

    Susan Moss

    Susan Moss

    Susan Moss

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    WooHoo-- Cain's came up with a plunger and spring my lucky day!
     
  15. Dec 14, 2019 #15

    Susan Moss

    Susan Moss

    Susan Moss

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    installed plunger/spring and problem solved. Mainspring still too stiff but manageable.
     
  16. Dec 14, 2019 #16

    Cowboy

    Cowboy

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    Had a lock out of a Cherokee a couple of years back.

    Snapped the sear screw off flush with the lock plate. Was a bear getting the threaded end out of that lock plate! Nothing to grip onto?

    Ended up soaking the lock plate in 3-1 oil for a couple of days. Then took a heavy duty magnet and was able to back the remnants of the sear screw out.

    Anyway, after reassembling the lock, I too remember how overly stiff that coil mainspring was!! Another feature that I found unusual was that the mainspring and guide was actually attached to the tumbler as one until. Other end of the guide slips into a sleeve on the lock plate like the other TC lock’s.

    Definitely took more force than one was use to when cocking back that hammer! Could definitely account for the mushrooming of the tops of the nipple’s.

    Respectfully, Cowboy
     
  17. Dec 14, 2019 #17

    Eddie Southgate

    Eddie Southgate

    Eddie Southgate

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    I wouldn't shoot the heavy loads ( REAL Bullet ) in a Seneca or Cherokee for fear of causing the stock to crack . A PRB and 40-50 grains of FFG or Pyrodex would be the most I would use . Will still kill a Deer at the distance you stated with no problems and will be a lot easier on the thin stock . I have both barrels for mine ( .36 & .45 ) and have killed deer with both with PRB and 45 gr FFg and never lost one yet .
     

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