HELP! Traditions kentucky long rifle frustrasion.

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Hoosier96

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Howdy all. I bought a brand new traditions Kentucky long rifle last january, my first flintlock. I made a post back than asking for some tips and pointers, and after all the feed back im back for more wisdom lol. Im having a hard time getting a good spark. I've gotten the powder in the pan to take the spark more often but it's just not a good shower. Ive tried the manufactured traditions flints, and the 5/8s English flints from track of the wolf, not much luck. But my main problem; ignition is soooooooo slowwwwwww. Once that powder in the pan goes off it takes for ever for the main charge to ignite (it burns like a fuse almost) ive tried more priming powder, less powder, keeping the powder to one side away from the vent and lining it flat in the pan. Ive tried 2f 3f and I even drilled out the flash liner as i heard that would fix it ( i probably drilled it out to big, but at least the main charge is finally going off more than it used to.)

Im pretty frustrated at this point. Do i buy different parts try something else, or hang this particular rifle up for good? I've always wanted a flintlock and now that i got one i can't make it work right, at this rate it wont see deer season this year. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated guys, im at my wits end with this thing. Thanks.
 

Flintlock

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Traditions uses a "Patented Breech" type tang, you usually need a long , 22 to .30 caliber bruch to reach down in it and give it a dang good cleaning, there is a very good chance your flashhole is partially plugged. Clean the heck out of it before going on to other options, and less prime is almost always better. Too much prime blows up and away.
 

ohio ramrod

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It is just my personal opinion , but I believe the "patented Breech" that traditions uses is O.K. for percusion but a serious fault for flintlocks.
 

Flintlock

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They seem to work very well if kept real clean and after pouring in powder tip the muzzle up and turn the lock down and give it a little slap to settle the charge in place before seating patch and ball.
 

Brokennock

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A few things to try.
Polish the heck out of the pan, just the part the powder goes in, then keep it wiped clean for every shot, or attempted shot.
Much less powder in the pan.
20200324_212123.jpg
This is all the powder (3f) this gun needs in the pan to go off reliably, as in go off every time. Much more than this and things start to slow down. I can get away with more if using 4f.

Place feather or metal wire, or thin piece of brass rod (available at hobby stores) in the touch hole after cleaning the pan, flint, and frizzen (I wipe mine with an alcohol prep pad or a patch with some isopropyl alcohol on it), and leave it there while you load the gun, only remove it when you are ready to prime the pan.
20190205_131655.jpg20190205_131555.jpg
This is a piece of shirt hanger wire that I've tapered with a file. The taper a length are such that when the fat part of the taper hits the edge of the flash hole the tip is a hair off the opposite barrel wall.
Many will say that leaving something in the hole like this isn't necessary, and sometimes it may not be, but I don't think it can ever hurt, and it has historical precedence. Since I started doing this a few years ago, the only time my gun fails to fire is when I haven't been paying enough attention to my flint and it has gotten too short, needing to be moved forward in the jaws or replaced.

I am assuming you are using real black powder and not a substitute.
 

Winchester97

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I will say I struggled with a TC Hawken Flint for quite a while with slow ignition...similar Patent Breech to traditions. Then bought a used custom flinter with a Tresco touch-hole liner. Huge difference in speed, less misfires too. Then, I assembled a Kibler SMR with a white lightnin' liner, I never pick the touch hole, and I can see 3f powder peeking out of the hole before priming. It is as fast as a percussion gun, and literally never suffers from any misfires if the pan charge ignites. There is a lot you can do to improve your ignition speed...clean breech/fire channel, different touch hole liner, larger touch hole, etc. In the end, the fire still has quite a path to travel to the bulk of the main charge with a patent breech.
 

Hoosier96

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A few things to try.
Polish the heck out of the pan, just the part the powder goes in, then keep it wiped clean for every shot, or attempted shot.
Much less powder in the pan.
View attachment 93796
This is all the powder (3f) this gun needs in the pan to go off reliably, as in go off every time. Much more than this and things start to slow down. I can get away with more if using 4f.

Place feather or metal wire, or thin piece of brass rod (available at hobby stores) in the touch hole after cleaning the pan, flint, and frizzen (I wipe mine with an alcohol prep pad or a patch with some isopropyl alcohol on it), and leave it there while you load the gun, only remove it when you are ready to prime the pan.
View attachment 93797View attachment 93798
This is a piece of shirt hanger wire that I've tapered with a file. The taper a length are such that when the fat part of the taper hits the edge of the flash hole the tip is a hair off the opposite barrel wall.
Many will say that leaving something in the hole like this isn't necessary, and sometimes it may not be, but I don't think it can ever hurt, and it has historical precedence. Since I started doing this a few years ago, the only time my gun fails to fire is when I haven't been paying enough attention to my flint and it has gotten too short, needing to be moved forward in the jaws or replaced.

I am assuming you are using real black powder and not a substitute.
Maybe i can put all these feathers my turkeys leave behind to good use, Ill give that a try thanks. "Real" black powder is incredibly hard to find where i live. I try to use hodgen when i can, i think its higher quality than the other substitutes, but I haven't bought real bp in probably a decade. If you know where i can find some im all ears.
 

Hoosier96

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thanks for all your suggestions ill try to give it a try today. Do you guys think id be better off just up grading the breech? And if so, what kind? Also ive looked into the white lightning liners, are they any good, and what size would i need?
 

Winchester97

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Maybe i can put all these feathers my turkeys leave behind to good use, Ill give that a try thanks. "Real" black powder is incredibly hard to find where i live. I try to use hodgen when i can, i think its higher quality than the other substitutes, but I haven't bought real bp in probably a decade. If you know where i can find some im all ears.
I missed the fact you were using a substitute powder. I'm certain switching to real black powder would make so much improvement in speed, you could call it good. Might have to order it online and pay Hazmat fee, but there is no comparison for speed. Graf's, Buffalo Arms, Powder valley and Midway usually get it in stock if you watch.
 

Farm Boy

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I have had the same problems with my recently purchased Traditions Kentucky. I upgraded the lock to a L&R RPL1 for $185. Installation did require removing wood from the lock mortise with a small chisel and I had to file on the seer quite a bit to make it mesh properly with the trigger. That took care of the poor sparking but I was still getting many misfires when the pan would go but not ignite the main charge. I had been using 3f pyrodex or 777 as the main charge but then I read on this forum that black powder substitutes have a higher ignition temperature and that real black powder is highly suggested for flintlocks. I switched to using 3F swiss down the bore and it made my traditions Kentucky much more reliable. I would start by finding real 3f black powder. While my upgraded lock is nice I think it was ultimately unnecessary.
 

TreeMan

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Maybe i can put all these feathers my turkeys leave behind to good use, Ill give that a try thanks. "Real" black powder is incredibly hard to find where i live. I try to use hodgen when i can, i think its higher quality than the other substitutes, but I haven't bought real bp in probably a decade. If you know where i can find some im all ears.
Stop the presses!!! You answered your own question! You’re using pyrodex?! You’re never going to have success with a flintlock using anything other than real blackpowder. Finding blackpowder online is the route you need to take. It’s available at numerous places but it like ammo is up and down as far as being in stock at the moment. Keep looking and some will be available somewhere.
 

rchas

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If real black powder is hard to find, you can stretch your supply by loading 10 grains of BP, then make up the rest of your load with pyrodex.
 

Sidney Smith

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You've already answered your own question. If you are using substitute powders, then that is why you are having the slow ignition. Flintlocks require real black powder to fire reliably. Pyrodex and the other substitute powders just won't do it.

There's nothing wrong with your gun. It's the powder that is at fault.
 

Hoosier96

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Thanks guys, ill try and find some real BP and give it a shot (no pun intended). What kind do you recommend, ive used only goex before. Also 2f or 3f? Thanks
 

TreeMan

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Thanks guys, ill try and find some real BP and give it a shot (no pun intended). But while i got your attention, i just tried cleaning the breech plug and the .22 brush wouldn't even fit! Is this common? Thanks.

View attachment 93808
Pull the touch hole liner then run that brush down the bore. You should be able to see the tip of it in the breech. A 22 brush should fit down there. I never use a brush in the breech. I just flush it with water after shooting.
 

ord sgt

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Goex is the most readily available black powder. Swiss, Schutzen are out there. FFFg or FFg, either will work well. If buying black powder online, before placing an order, check with friends, family, find others to go along with you when ordering powder. Haz mat and shipping fees are the same, whether the order is one pound or ten pounds. Spread the cost around.
 

Hoosier96

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Goex is the most readily available black powder. Swiss, Schutzen are out there. FFFg or FFg, either will work well. If buying black powder online, before placing an order, check with friends, family, find others to go along with you when ordering powder. Haz mat and shipping fees are the same, whether the order is one pound or ten pounds. Spread the cost around.
Ok thanks. Everywhere ive look is out of goex but plenty of swiss. Guess ill get some of it.
 

Brokennock

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2f or 3f, doesn't really matter. You'll need a little less 3f to get the same velocity as 2f. Both will work fine for pan and main charge. I wouldn't be too concerned about brand either. Get what you can, it will be better than the frustration of trying to make a flintlock work with fake ppowder.
Get real powder and apply my above suggestions and I'm betting you will have no more troubles. Though those patent breaches can be troublesome. It must be kept clear. I would be very careful about swaying the bore between shots,,,, as in, don't do it if you don't absolutely have to, try to develop a load that doesn't need it. 3f may help with this. Of you push crud into that little opening into the breach, you will have problems.
 

Hoosier96

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2f or 3f, doesn't really matter. You'll need a little less 3f to get the same velocity as 2f. Both will work fine for pan and main charge. I wouldn't be too concerned about brand either. Get what you can, it will be better than the frustration of trying to make a flintlock work with fake ppowder.
Get real powder and apply my above suggestions and I'm betting you will have no more troubles. Though those patent breaches can be troublesome. It must be kept clear. I would be very careful about swaying the bore between shots,,,, as in, don't do it if you don't absolutely have to, try to develop a load that doesn't need it. 3f may help with this. Of you push crud into that little opening into the breach, you will have problems.
10-4. Thanks to todays day and age i had to buy alot more powder than i wanted. So ive got 5lbs of goex fffg on the way lol. Ill let y'all know how it works, thanks for all your help, i greatly appreciate it.
 

SDSmlf

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Thanks guys, ill try and find some real BP and give it a shot (no pun intended). What kind do you recommend, ive used only goex before. Also 2f or 3f? Thanks
I have multiple manufacturers’ chambered breeches flint guns (TC, Lyman, Pedersoli) and quite honestly have no real ignition ignition issues with them with blackpowder. I usually use 3F powder (typically Swiss) with a 5/64” diameter touchhole (I known, larger than the 1/16” diameter many recommend). Actually see some of the 3F powder from the main charge in the pan after loading. Pretty obvious sign that the touchhole to main powder charge path is clear and ready for action/ignition. With a sharp flint (not one of those cut stones) I have near instantaneous ignition of the main charge 99% plus of time. If and when there is a failure, I find that user error (that would be me taking shortcuts) is the reason.
 
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