help! my trade gun shoots low!

[berickson]

it always has. a 54/28ga trade gun by jackie brown. by stepping up the load to 1 1/8 oz of shot, equal powder, 2 cards over powder (2f- approx 80gr), 1 card over shot the pattern is now up. fibre wads seem to do nothing to the pattern.
but round balls are still low.(goofy turtle sight is already filed down)
so do i just shoot it a ton until i learn to ignore the front sight (sort of like instinctive archery) or is there something that can be done?
i would like to use the same powder charge for shot & ball but 100 grains 2f blows the pattern. 3f still throws a low pattern, but not as good a pattern as 2f.
i have heard of barrel bending but SURELY that would have to be a last resort.(and there probably isn't anyone in alberta who could do it anyway)
i've been shooting ml rifles for a quite a while (flint & perc) but this is my first (and only) smoothbore.
anyone else ever have this problem? any remedies?
thx

 

[adkmountainken]

easy fix for me. my fowler shoots 2 inches right and 2 low so i hold 2 inches left and 2 high!! believe it or not the ole kentucky windage does just fine for me as my smoothie shoots round ball really well. i'm not trying to be a wise a$$, this it how i really compensate.

 

[flaming canvas]

The barrel may be bent. Check the Ned Roberts book for info on how to tell.

 

[Rebel]

Easiest fix is to put a rear sight on it. If you want it for hunting and are not going to shoot it in primitive rondy matches, that would be the way to go.

 

[musketman]

Lowering the front sight will raise the point of impact, as well as raising the rear of the barrel (glue a small bar stock on the top of the barrel at the breech), this will force you to look over it to see the front sight, raising the point of impact in the process...

Once you get use to holding it that way, remove the bar stock and try to hold it the same way using an imaginary rear sight (bar stock)...

 

[berickson]

thanks for the replies. it's sort of what i expected. just shoot the wee beastie a lot, til i get used to it with round ball. i like the idea of a temporary rear sight (fronts been filed down already) so i'll try that to accelerate the learning curve.
another friend (xlnt shotgunner) said to watch your cheek pressure - keep it the same on all shots as that's what throws shotgunners off. and the trade rifle will have to be aimed instinctively like a shotgun. i believe he may be right cuz i shoot the trade gun better when i barely have pressure on the cheek piece.
the ZEN of it all ........ ah grasshopper, can you sight down the unseen sight and follow the line that isn't? when you can snatch these 54 calibre round balls from my hand ..........::

 

[GrayBear]

I copied this off a web page that is now defunct, so I guess it is OK to pass it on. It is certainly intended for the metuculus and is possibly intended only for the brave! It worked on my shotgun, for me. It took a whole day at the range to shoot maybe eight shots until I was satisfied, but it worked.

Caution: YMMV! Work carefully!

GrayBear



TIM'S MUZZLELOADING PAGE
REGULATING SMOOTHBORE BARRELS
January 1999

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Things you will need

Steel or aluminum I-beam

straight edge

Pipe clamp

Drill bits

Grease pencil or crayon

The regulating of smoothbore barrels has been an intimidating job at best for most of us. This method was devised by my two buddies,Mike Money and Chuck Paul,and works very well.It is precise and easy and does not involve the fork of a tree in any way.I have used it several times and can attest to it's accuracy.To prove my point I can only say that Chuck has won more Trade Gun events on the Primitive Range and Quail Walk at Friendship than anyone can remember,and I myself am the current Winter National Record Holder with a Trade Gun at 100yds. 41x. I tell you this not to brag but to prove to you that you can turn that smoothie into a shooter.

The first thing you will need is an I-beam or at the very least a very straight wooden beam.Next you will need two wooden blocks to rest the barrel on.Use hardwood not soft.Soft wood will crush under the pressure.Cut notches in the blocks to prevent the barrel from rolling off.Set the barrel on the I-beam,with a wood block under each end..Using a grease pencil place a match mark on the barrel and blocks.This assures you will get the barrel back in the same place each time.Also measure the length of the barrel and mark it's center.

You will need a pipe clamp large enough to span from the top of the barrel to the bottom of the beam.Put the clamp at the center mark of the barrel and begin tightening.(pad the clamp!)Don't be afraid to bend the barrel.They are quite springy and you will have to bend it more than the required correction to get it to stay.Just play with it and do not get in a hurry.Tighten a little,and loosen it a few times to get a feel for[url] it.Again[/url] work SLOOOOWLY!!

You can check your progress by laying a straight edge across the length of the barrel and using drill bits as a feeler guage,to determine how much you have bent it.Always check this at the center mark you made on the barrel.You may have to put the barrel back in the stick a few times and fire it to see how your shots are moving,but they will slowly start to go where you want them to.

This method works for moving the ball placement up or down,right or left,depending which side of the barrel you bend.Go slowly here and think out each move to be sure you are bending the right side of the barrel.

This also works for changing the center of your shot pattern when using birdshot,but again work slowly and carefully.

Barrels that have been bent have a tendency to move back to ward their original position after several hundred shots,so record what drill bit you last used to guage the curve.Makes it easy to go back and check to see if the barrel has moved.

Remember one thing.This is a fixed sight gun.You must regulate it for a set distance,say 25yds and use Kentucky windage for other ranges.

I hope I have been of assistance in the regulating of your smoothie,and good shooting to you.

 

[Dave Poss]

Question...wouldn't bending the barrel cause it not to fit the barrel channel in the stock?,....or is it such a small amount that it would not be a factor? ::

 

Daryal has done this several times, I believe, using much less complicated equipment.

There was a long thread on this subject about a year back and several of the old members with experience in barrel bending gave recomendations.

I think someone was using a bd attitude and a truck bumper!

Lots of barrel bending going on with some of the old members.

Where are those guys?

 

DUH !!!! aim HIGHER !!!!

 

[Stumpkiller]

It's a gun (sightless smoothbore). It's not aimed, it's pointed. ::

Any visual reference to the barrel is secondary and only in the peripheral vision as you concentrate 100% on the target. You look down the barrel, but not at the barrel or anything attached to it.

Start at 5 yards and back up in five yard increments once it is grouping recognizably.

Think shotgun and not rifle.

 

[tg]

"It's a gun (sightless smoothbore). It's not aimed, it's pointed"

it is and was, (200+ years ago) also common place to use the sight or sights to aim a smoothbore when using ball.

 

[Stumpkiller]

You didn't copy my " ::" with that. :nono: ( :

Remember Mos-skeet ranges back in the 60's? Bolt action .22 LR smoothbores with crimped brass shot cartridges and an effective range of about 25 feet? A skeet the size of a Mallo Cup? (Remember Mallo Cups?) We had a range set up at my Scout Camp. Every time I would miss the D.I. (why is it Scout Shooting Range Staff were always retired D.I.'s back then?) would slap me in the back of the head and say "Stop Aiming!" (Remember when every adult in school or Scouting could and would slap you around or boot your behind?)


Instead of "Aim small, miss small" a musket or smoothbore shooter needs to "Point fast, kill fast."

Nothing spoils the accuracy of an instinctive shot worse than pausing and thinking about the "aim." Instinctive means your consciousness is not required.

 

You mean back when people would kick your behind and make you behave like a civilized person?

Back when we could sleep with our doors unlocked, leave the keys in the car and the lawn mower in the yard?

I think that was right after the Indian wars and just before Viet Namn.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Yep. When if you said "Ozzie" anyone would think "Harriet."

Nobody wanted to steal our mower.

Dad didn't buy a gas mower until the end of the summer that I went to college. No lie. I think the one in that picture is much more streamlined that the cast-iron beast my older brother and I used. :crackup:

Dad was born in 1912 and didn't part with money easily.

 

[Flintshooter in Indiana]

I've got a Jackie Brown and I had to bend the barrel. It shot 6" low when I got it.

If you use the rear flat of the barrel as a reference and you've filed the turtle down and it's still low.........it's gotta be bent. Mine looks like a ski jump slope, but it hits where I hold it. I had to put a taller front sight on it after we bent it.

I talked to Chuck Oder, who's been buildin' shotguns for years, before I did it and he said to bend it. So me and a buddy put it in the fork of a tree, at Friendship during one of the shoots, and tweaked 'er a little.

Now I use it for deer huntin' and ain't afeerd to pop something out as far as 100yds, if need be.

Patterned it for turkey this spring and it shot best with 55grs fffg and 1 3/4 oz #5's. That's at 25yds. Tried it at thirty and couldn't get it to pattern there no matter what I tried. So, I'm huntin' turkey at 25yds or less.

If you are gonna try to bend it, take it a little further than you think 'cause it'll spring back a little.
Good luck.......... eace:

 

[berickson]

steel I beams?? forked trees?? :shocking:
now THAT'S more interesting than aiming higher (duuuh!) ::.
that's an interesting load flint shooter. sounds like a 20 gauge tho. maybe i should cut back my pwdr to 50 or 60 grains and see if the point of impact rises. don't know if 50-60 grains'll do a bambi at 50+ yards tho. i suppose it would (pondering) most military bp loads were 50-70 grains.
hmmm.
before i tackle the barrel bending i'll work more with loads and take stumpkillers advise re instinctive shooting.
it's a hoot to play with so why not shoot it a lot.
from other posts on my other thread it would appear jackie brown has very few fans. my trade gun turned out ok - perfect no- but i like it.i can't afford perfect.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Just for reference, Tim has changed hosts, but is still out there (http://marina.fortunecity.com/seaview/283/index.html). The link to the barrel-bending page is near the bottom.

So, O Horny<<<<< Horned one, if you're not yet one with the smoothy, does that mean you're bring the twisted .54 out monday, and fuss with them silly little copper things instead of the flints spread in abundance over the earth?

(He has a _very_ nice rifle, but there are a couple of important pieces missing from the lock)

 

[berickson]

yes joel- i'll be going high tech on monday as i am not one with the browned plumbing pipe :>)
can't say as i've seen much flint on the prairies. wouldn't know it till i cut my foot on it come to think of it.
altho i do have the 50 bedford flinter, i still have more faith in the robinson. it's supposed to snow on monday.
if i see a puff of smoke with no bang but a lot of ###(*&^%%% i'll know you got a shot at a deer. ;>)

 

[riarcher]

Just wondering-
You say "cheek presure" makes things grand?
Why not just build up the cheek area tied on leather (maybe with add'l pieces "Ply-Bonded" on the inner side) and make it look like one of them "injun repair" jobs? :hmm: