Help me find a 12 ga Fowler

[Brewer]

Hi Folks,
After much internal deliberation, I've decided that I must have a 12 gauge flintlock fowler. This piece will also double as a "militia musket" for local re-enacting events (Massachusetts). The problem is that no one seems to be making them in 12 gauge! There are plenty of 20's from various makers, but the only 12 gauge kits I've found have been from Jim Chambers (too tough to build?) and Early Rustic Arms (very nice but +1 year wait!).

Anyone know where I can a 12 gauge fowler, either as a completed arm or a fairly easy kit (assembled in-the-white would be perfect)?

Thanks in advance for your help!
Brewer

 

[makanaut]

How about a Bess?

 

[robinghewitt]

12 gauge didn't really become popular until percussion and live pigeon events.

Most flint shotguns are 20 or 16 gauge. Other sizes did exist, but usually for a reason.

Do you have any particular reason for wanting a 12g?

 

[Brewer]

Thanks, Guys.

I'm definitely thinking about a Brown Bess. I'm not sure if I should go with the Pedersoli or save my pennies for a Narragansett Armes 1st model or a kit from the Rifle Shoppe. What I really want is a sort-of "Committee of Safety" type musket, which might have been employed by a militiaman in the Lexington/Concord/ area at the start of the revolution (4 of my relatives were on Lexington Green in April '75, and I want to put together a "kit" of their likely accoutrements). My vague sense of these firelocks is that they were of the "Bess" pattern, and might have seen a mix of British and American components. The Militia Musket for sale from Early Rustic Arms is pretty much exactly what I want, but I'm impulsive and impatient and can't wait a year or more for the thing.

Maybe I should jsut get a 1st model Bess and try to modify it to my desires.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks!
Brewer

 

[musketman]

Get the bess... :winking: :redthumb:

 

For the same price as a Pedersoli, you can get all the parts necessary for your .75 Fowler from Track, as well as have them do quite a bit of the work. I'd go with the Dutch Colerain Barrel 1/2 Oct. in .75 cal. It has a 1 1/4" breech section, is already well breeched, 42" long & they will do the final barrel inletting for you, I am sure. The stock is already 90% (or more) inlet for the roundfaced Queen Anne lock.
: I'd at least give them a call(or e-mail and see what they can do for you. The parts you will receive are better quality than you will receive in any production gun & well worth 'extra' if any. They will do all of the work you don't want to. This is the route I may be soon following at an increase of 1.4X, just for exchange.

 

[Brewer]

Hi Folks,
I e-mailed TOTW with my inqiry about a 12 gauge Fowler, and this was their prompt reply:

Thank you for your inquiry about a 12 gauge fowling gun kit.

Sadly, our Fowling Gun Kit was created to make an architectecturally correct slim and trim fullstock flint fowling gun, using our 42" length 20 gauge barrel, which is 1" octagon at the breech. The L&R Queen Anne flint lock is a perfect choice, exactly the correct size and scale, and our stock was made to be easily fitted and finished using these parts.

The 12 gauge barrels are much larger at the breech, and should use the larger Jim Chambers' Fowling Gun lock, and those parts are not easily inlet into our stock, which is simply too thin to allow larger parts.

Certain states now mandate a 12 gauge fowling gun for taking certain game (Turkey in Minnesota, for instance), and so we are considering an all new fowling gun pattern, using a 12 gauge barrel and larger flint lock. This is a lengthy process, and may be ready for our 2006 Catalog edition.

If you elect any of our other fowling gun kits, Tulle fusil kit, French Type C or Type D trade gun kit, North West Trade Gun kit, or any of our flint longrifle kits, our gunsmith can install the plug, lugs, and sights, at modest cost, within 3 to 7 days shop time. The vent liner should be installed after final inletting of the tang and lock, to compensate for any change in dimension. First time builders tend to over-inlet the breech end, and this may cause the barrel to move backwards about 1/16" to 1/8", as they achieve a good fit, which is harmless, unless the vent has already been drilled. We can install the vent, but it is wise to install it after your lock is hand inlet. We can provide the vent liner, tap, and drill, and you (or your mentor) can easily install it.

The book "Recreating the American Longrifle" is required reading for any gun building project. Order #BOOK-RAL at $40.00 plus $3.00 postage. Notice the chapter specifically explaining correct step-by-step instructions for installing the Jim Chambers' White Lightnin' Vent Liner. This book is a valuable addition to your work bench.




David Ripplinger



I appreciated the lengthy reply from TOTW. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like my immediate needs can be taken care of.

I think I'm going to order the Pedersoli 2nd Model Brown Bess Kit (basically an assembled gun in-the-white) which will fulfill my simultaneous needs for an easy build and a large bore.

Thanks to all who replied! I'll post back when the kit arrives.

Brewer

 

[Ohio Rusty]

A good friend of mine, who is also an excellent muzzloading gun builder here in Ohio happens to have 2 12 gauge fowler barrels at his shop. The barrels were made by Jackie Brown. I had him build me a 12 gauge Tulle and it is an excellent shooter with a fast lock. If you are interested, or want to see how long a wait for a 12 gauge fowler (mine was 3 months) you can call him. The builder is: Larry Cordray 1-740-962-5196. Tell him Rusty referred you. His guns are on par in excellence with any builder today, and he is a little more affordable in price.
Ohio Rusty

 

[tg]

"The 12 gauge barrels are much larger at the breech, and should use the larger Jim Chambers' Fowling Gun lock,"

Good Lard, can't Ripplinger do any better than that if he does not have what someone wants? I have seen 12 bore fowlers use many different locks depending on the era the gun is from and all looked good.

 

[rexdevantier]

I have a Pedersoli 12ga Mortimer flint shotgun and also the .54 ball barrel for it and it goes real good with either barrel. Lock time is superb.Also have an 1816 Pedersoli .69 flint musket that goes pretty well but haven't tried it on birds. Don't know if I could stop it once I started swinging it.
Cheers, Rex Dev. :m2c:

 

I have just made one this year in 12ga.The 12ga. was popular in the Revo. and pre revo. Miltary 12 ga. flints were used in combat and for hunting. Mine is slim and light and shoots and carrys good. I prefer it to the 20ga. Its light and gracefull. Caywood sells them and Chambers too! Rustic arms has a entry level 12 and 11bore. Most were used up in battle and hunting. Few have survived,but there are some out there in 12ga. in orininal cond. The 20ga. is ok,but make mine a12 bore. You can load a 12 bore down,but not a 20 bore up!!!

 

[Stumpkiller]

You can load a 12 bore down,but not a 20 bore up!!!

Who says? There's no fixed chamber length in a muzzleloader. I used 12 ga equivalent loads in my 16 ga. You just get a slighty longer shot string, hardly enough to worry about. The breeches of a M/L can take it, as long as you don't go wild. 80 gr of FFg & 1-1/8 oz #6 in a .60"/20 ga. Fowler is hardly a barn burner. That's 12 ga territory.

 

Yes you can overload a 20ga. and make the shotstring very long and slow. The best pattern is with the shortest shotstring. The 16ga. with 1oz. is the perfect load and best in most 16ga. The english wrote the book on shotgunning patterns with the sqaure load shot = to bore size. The 20ga. 7/8 oz. and the 12 ga.11/8oz. I,m not knocking the 20ga. or the 16ga. But in blk-powder bigger is better. I found the 10ga. performs the best. And even the 11 bore has worked great with heavy shot loads. But wanting the best of all worlds I have picked the 12ga. The smaller 20 ga. can be overloaded and get bad paterns and slow pellet speed when to far over there perfect load. I have had all and burned many pounds of powder to find what the British have tryed in the last 250 some years. People are supprized when I hand them my 12 bore with its lightness and grace. And when they shoot it. They want to buy it. For my hunting I will use it for Turkey,rabbit and even deer this season. As said the 10,11,12 ga. are not too big and will work fine in the field. My little Mod.-D tulle 20 bore was great,but not a 10,11,or 12ga in pattern or shot speed and knock down power. The same holds true of modern shotguns.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I'm not sure why you think the 20 gauge is any slower than a 12. They are identical in speed for a given load. The 12 just routinely delivers more pellets. Add pellets and add powder as well and the 20 is every bit as fast as the 12. The difference in shot string lengths is based on the seated shot of the 20 being slightly longer than it is wide (when loaded to a 12 gauge volume of shot. The long shot string becomes less of a handicap in stationary, or slow moving game. I use MAX loads in my 20 for turkey, as they usually are stationary when I try to headshoot them.

Just an observation. I'm not saying sell all the 12's and buy 20's. I was just responding to your comment that you can download a 12 but not upload a 20. Sometimes the lighter 20 is faster on target and you can get off a shot with the game closer, even with just the normal 20 loads. I'd grab a 20 over a 12 everytime for grouse and snipe. :results:

 

Sir this calls for a duel at the pattern board and trap range!! Just kidding ,yes I like the 20 bore too,but it will never = a 12ga. no matter what you put in it. For certian game and shooting the 20 bore is great ,but it will never cover as much ground as the 12 ga. As with modern shotguns the 12ga. is more universal accross the board. Just like golf we need more clubs than just one in our bag. No I,m not a golfer,hey what size shot do we use on them??? My next progject is the sweet 16 ga. carrys like a 20ga and hits like a 12ga. Long live your 20ga.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Well said. My musket was a 16 ga (.662 bore) and I'd have done better with the bayonet at the trap range than try and dust a crossing skeet with that fusil, but it rolled any number of bunnies. My single barrel M/L shotgun ('Ol Blunderpotz) is a 12 ga. I need every pellet I can get with my reflexes and her cylinder bore. Fill the sky with lead and hope they fly into it.