Hawkens type .50 cal

[Nappers]

Greetings Gang,

I lurk a lot but never contribute as my knowledge of ML is still in it's infant stage.

I took my 50cal (now that I know what it is) and took a good buddy and shot that bad boy.

WHAT A BLAST!

I used .495 balls, 23th pillow ticking, 3 rivers patch lube, moose milk to clean. Oh yeah, 70gr of 3F powder.

I shot pretty good, shot a little to the right at 10 yards or so and hit the target at 20, 40 and 60yds out. My teacher is a 30 year or more ML shooter and quite good.

The gun is beautiful (sorry no pics yet) and shot wonderfully. I really supressed the feeling of the cap going then the boom, my first shot was the fouling shot at dirt pile then shot. My buddy shot it and liked the gun, and coming from him who attends a lot of shoots locally is nice. We tried 70gr of 2F and didn't like the results, so, I'm sticking to 3F. The only things I need is my own powder horn and possibles bag. I have some lead balls for other calibers and going to melt them down and use them.

I did introduce myself, but a little history on the gun, it's a Hawkens style .50cal with H.L. Moss on barrel, barrel made in 1976 and also stamped 1983 and no other markings. The stock is done beautifully with brass and a matte stock finish. The barrel is brown.

My future plans is to make as many lead balls as my back will let me and I already cut a ton of pillow ticking, washed twice and mic 22th average, with .495 balls, the ball seats tight, but not too hard, to the liking of my teacher.

I plan on going to a get together with a local club and shoot it more.

I must say, out of my hobbies, this one caught me the hardest, I am now wanting a pistol, a possibles bag for me to set up and looking for that right powder horn and have it scrimshawed or scrimshaw it myself.

The gun belonged to my Dad's cousin who passed away and gave it to my Dad, when my Dad passed away, he gave it to me as I don't sell firearms given to me and he would know I would find a way to shoot it. It seems pretty custom made, not a kit, or a kit modified maybe....don't know yet.

I am planning on keeping the brass polished as my teacher does on his. I may refinish the stock as I like the gloss, but no real plans yet on that, I just refinished Dad's old 870 Wingmaster and Mom's old Stevens 311A and kinda burned out on tru oil, sanding, tru oil etc.

Anyways, read a gazzilion topics on here and learned a lot from you guys, great place and had a great teacher and hope to have many more years of ML shooting.

Glad to be here.

Aaron
Nappers.

 

[rawhide]

good to hear you like shooting smoke poles! depends on where your from there is alot of differnt clubs out there. I'll warn you now it's additing!!! I ben doing this for 16-17 years now and love it... as for refinishing your stock I like true oil. gives a nice velvet like sheen to the wood. plus it would like real nice with the brass and brown barrel as you mentioned. I hand rubbed mine wile watching a ball game. just dip your finger in the bottle put alittle on the stock and start rubbing it in. I do 4-6 cotes to get a realy good finish.

 

[Ron_T.]

Yes... the hobby is "catching"... love the aroma of those "clouds" of black powder and nothing could be more fun that shooting traditional muzzle loaders.

I got into ML-ing a couple of years ago and since I started shootin' 'em, I haven't shot anything else. My rimfires and center-fires must think I'm "MAD" at 'em... but I'm not. I'm just havin' too much FUN shooting these ol' caplocks and flintlocks!!!

Small wonder these fellers get "into" these MLs and never go back to the modern rifles again... what could be more FUN than this?!?!? :grin:


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Sounds like a nice Hawken. A couple of comments.

A .495 ball with a .023 patch seems like it would be awfully tight.

You mention hearing the cap go off then the charge. You shouldn't. That's a delayed ignition. You should just hear the charge if everything is working like it should.

 

[ohio ramrod]

The most important difference between black powder guns and modern guns is the importance of cleaning black powder weapons completely and keeping them rust free. I am sure now that you are well on your way to a complete addiction to black powder. :hmm:

 

[William O.]

My 50 caliber has the same preference for 3f. You might want to try .490 RB's if using thicker patches and learn how to clean the bore with just soap and water as it is quick and effective while not being as messy as it sounds. I would also suggest using an alcohol dampened cleaning patch while at the range to remove a lot of powder fouling in between shots. Hope this helps, have fun!

 

[Nappers]

I don't hear a delayed ignition, I thought I would but never even noticed it. In fact it doesn't recoil like my .06 and it's really fun to shoot! Can't wait to shoot it more!

It would seem tight with actually .497 balls and 22-23th patches (pillow wicking washed/dried 5 times) but it went down easily enough, no major pounding, but it was nice and snug, like I said, not sure how custom the gun/barrel was. My buddy shoots .513 balls with the same patches, wonder if mine was set up same. I am going to try different patches etc and see what works best. I have some old pre-lubed patches to shoot up as Dad and Cousin Wally would have preferred that I use it instead of letting it go. He did leave some "real" 2f and 3f powders as well as Pyrodex, so, gonna experiment with it. My poor 30-06, 270, .45 Colt Commander are on the back burner right now.

I love it, can't wait to get off work and start pulling the trigger. I live in No. California and can't wait to get more supplies. My buddy that has helped me is going to make me more balls to shoot up at a shoot next month and hopefully I do good. Need to practice. I hope to pick up a powder horn and possibles bag at the shoot as often times someone sells stuff as I was told. I want to pick up a .498 mold and experiment with different size patches and powder charges as the sky's the limit with these things and I like to experiement, but not go crazy and blow it up!

I was also taught to clean the gun after a shoot and run patches between shots if I go to the shoot. I know the importance of cleaning a firearm as I strip all of my guns after range/practicing for my department and give them a good cleaning. Currently I am using an old bottle of Moose Milk given by my buddy and used Kroil oil to oil the gun. I also have Rem Oil, Hoppes oil and I love Militec oils and plan on using that on my gun as I use it on all my guns.

I love the gun and when I get some pics, I'll upload and place in appropriate forum.

Thanks for the site and for all of you that help us noobs to enjoy this hobby.

Aaron

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

You may want to stick with Rem Oil for the muzzleloader, and not use Kroil, as that's used as a penetrating loosener I believe....

Remember to store it muzzle-down on a paper towel after oiling it, so you don't pool oil in the flash channel :wink: and have FUN!

Dave

 

[Pete Gaimari]

You do seem to have a pretty big bore for a .50 cal. Normally a .490 ball and .015-.018 patch would be used.

Could it be a .52 cal?

Pillow ticking is usually .017-.018. :idunno:

 

[Nappers]

My buddy Mike, mic'd it and it is a .50 but he likes the way the .497 and 23th patches work. I bought some pillow ticking (blue/white) and it mic'd at 15-17 or so and after a couple of washings and drying on high, it tightened up to 22-23th's. So, I cut up 2yds of it and have enough patches for a while.

Can't speak for Mike who has shot a long time, but he likes the set up and of course I'm going to mess around with it like my '.06 loads in my Rem 700 and see how I shoot with what combo. Sky's the limit.

Tonight is Friday for me and can't wait to take it to range and blast it again, I have to work thursday night and maybe on Friday or Saturday before work I will shoot it.

It's been fun.

To add, the gun has a fixed tang and needs to be removed with the barrel, I am very careful when removing but does this make the gun not as good or does it matter? Can the gun be made to be a locked breech or barrel (can't remember terminology).

I have not rounded out the holes in the wood and don't have the "one more turn is tight" syndrome.

Aaron

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Is the tang soldered to the breech?

 

[paulvallandigham]

For cleaning, most of us who have a "fixed tang" simply cradle the gun in a rack Upside down, with the top of the barrel down, and parallel to the countertop or sink. We Then run patches and water in and out of the barrel so it doesn't drip down on the stock. Plug the hole for the nipple, and pour water down a funnel into the barrel, and add soap. Let the soap do its job for 1/2-1 hour. Then pour the gunk out, and scrub the barrel with a bore brush, and cleaning patches also soaked in water and soap. Then rinse. As long as the stock is on TOP when you are cleaning, gravity keeps the crud, soap and water from getting on the wood or its finish.

The removed nipple is places in a glass with its own soap and water, and I clean the lock plate, and lock parts with an old toothbrush, and soap and water while waiting on the soap to do its work inside the barrel. I routinely wash and dry the lock parts, then check all the screws to make sure they are still firmly tightened, and oil the lock parts to prevent rusting, and to insure proper function of the lock the next time the gun is used. I have had to use scouring powder on some nipples to get all the BP residue off of them, but the nipples are also rinsed, dried, and lightly oiled, before its put back into the bolster.

I use pipe cleaners to clean the flash channel between the nipple and the bore. If your gun has a "reduced diameter" Powder chamber, you will need to determine its diameter, and find a bore brush that fits it to insure its also cleaned. The diameter of those powder chambers varies with manufacturers, and the caliber of the bore. ( Bore diameter is Land to Land diameter, not groove to groove diameter. Most, but not all, .50 caliber rifles come with a .500" bore diameter. )

Otherwise, you will need to remove the pins, and that tang screw or bolt, and place the barrel in a bucket, so that you can pump soap and water down through the powder chamber and flash channels, to clean those tiny locations properly.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

It's a Hawken Paul. Maybe he can unsolder it.

 

[Nappers]

Not sure if its soldered, will look into it and try to post pics for you guys. i dont mind taking off barrel to clean it, but will try alternative practices mentioned.....

 

[50cal.cliff]

My 50 cal. will shoot a .490 or a .495 ball using the same pillow ticking, it measures somewhere around .18.

Having said that a .490 ball will load with minumum effort. The .495 ball you have to load with a strain. I am always keenly aware of how I hold the ram rod as I keep expecting it too break. However I load with a hand over hand method when using the larger ball especially.

Now to the nuts and bolts. Shooting a .490 ball with a 70 grain charge will give me pretty good accuracy and the same with the .495 ball. However I use a 90 grain charge when hunting and the difference is not in accuracy.

Both loads will give pretty much the same result in accuracy however the .495 ball is much heavier in the kick department. I have often wondered if that means that it will have more hitting power with the impact end of the load but have never figured out a way to test that!

I love shooting my 50 cal. and tend to lose track of time when I am by myself and have been known to sit and shoot half of the day before I quit! It is very addicting. :idunno: :haha:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I wonder if the extra kick you feel from the bigger ball isn't a better seal, instead of the small difference it weight?

 

[napolean]

The term is "Hooked Breech"
Not all half stocked rifles have them.
Not all half stocked rifles need them.
I suggest following Pauls advise on cleaning and only removing the barrel occasionally to super clean prior to storing or after very heavy shooting sessions or a great time huntin in the rain.
So glad you have quit lurking.
WELCOME
Jon D

 

[Nappers]

I already saved as favorite and dont plan on taking barrel off except as mentioned.

I am glad to not hear that its terrible to have such a gun. pictures hopefully to follow soon, my phone is my regular internet and work is limited due to overabuse, Jailers abuse internet? say it aint so!

I recently cut 2yds of ticking and packaged it up for shoots, ended up 1350 patches. My buddy Mike calls me "Patches" now for my rendezvous name! "No one catches, the Patches"

Thanks for the help guys, appreciate it!

Aaron

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Does it have pins, or wedges holding on the barrel?

 

[50cal.cliff]

I wonder if the extra kick you feel from the bigger ball isn't a better seal, instead of the small difference it weight?

Exactly!!!!!!!!!! I never thought it had anything to do with weight difference in the ball! :haha:

However it does not seem to effect the accuracy of the rifle no matter which ball I use the .490 or the .495, one is pretty much as accurate as the other.

I do however suspect it may effect the impact power down range. I would suspect the .495 ball hits with more umph than the .490 ball especially at long range. That's what I was saying I don't know how to prove which one hits with more impact! :hmm:

For just target practice I prefer the .490, it is easier on the shoulder for shooting all day. When hunting though I prefer the knockdown of the .495 ball even if it is much harder to load!