Hawken vs Long Rifle

[F.G. Ford]

No one has discussed the lock. Now either can be had with either flint or percussion BUT as a general thing the Hawken "Plains" rifle is usually percussion while the Long rifle is flint.
If you like percussion locks- I'd get a Hawken type. If you like Flint- then a long rifle.

This day and age you can get your choice of ignition method...But the thing to consider is that The "Hawken" type rifles and the development of percussion ignition coincided with each other. The reliability of percussion and ease of construction led many flintlocks to be converted....This development marked the end for muzzleloaders....within 30 years there production would be gone, and cartridge rifles would take over...
Simple put, flintlocks were around a lot longer than percussion, but percussion became the preferred ignition system once developed, and only lasted a few decades before it was replaced with something even more reliable.

What do you mean 30 years.......how many of us here are still shooting percussion. And there are a couple a few years left in some of us, to refute that statement. :v
Fred

 

[RUDY MR]

I like the longer rifle of Kentucky's or best is Pennsylvania with the 42 inch barrel looks like old Danel Boones :surrender: :surrender:

 

[Rifleman1776]

My first was a CVA KY rifle kit. Full stock. Some of those older cheapo kit guns could shout a TIGHT group.

I like long guns best too myself but have way more Hawkins "type". More plentiful and cheaper.

Those old CVA Kentuckies weren't long on looks but 75 grains of FFg used to put a lot of Bambis in the freezer! :thumbsup:

My first ml rifle was a CVA 'kentucky' flinter. A worster hunka junka not possible. Soft frizzen, two piece barrel with riflings not lining up halfway down. I ordered it in 1970 from the CVA catalog. That catalog was a master piece of art and writing. It had beautiful pictures and the descriptions evoked a real sense of glamour from the past. Wished their guns of that day lived up to it. BTW, the first time I shot it was at a pick-up match on the Friendship range. Lots of notable top shooters there: Webb Terry, Max Vickery, Don Davis, Chuck Blender, Ron Moss and many others. What celebrity for a newbie to be with shooting for the first time. Well, folks, lemme tell you, with that :cursing: no good rifle I won a prize. Well, sorta. I was given a Sid Bell silver powderhorn pin, which I still have, for the lowest score :redface: of someone completing all of the matches. At least I shot and tried. Old men like to tell stories, thanks for letting me ramble. :grin:

 

[azmntman]

Mine was about 1972, a kit. 2 piece stock but not barrel? Twas accurate as a kid like me was back then?

 

[coloradoclyde]

What do you mean 30 years.......

I "mean", As the primary and dominant ignition method of the era.... (give or take a few years)
Percussion ignition muzzleloaders dominated only for a very short time in history (compared to flintlocks)...They were quickly replaced by rimfire then center fire ignition and cartridges...

Although, I will grant you, that today.... percussion still reigns supreme among traditional muzzleloaders...

 

[Wes/Tex]

I've never heard of or seen a two piece barrel...that's certainly novel. Can't say it'd inspire me with confidence. Those odd looking things did win their share of matches against some really nice originals and copies of originals...broke a few rich guy's hearts! you know what the say, "Beauty is in the eyes of the bee holder!" :wink: :haha:
https://photos.prnewswire.com/prnvar/20150915/266726

 

[RUDY MR]

Yep mine was CVA Kentucky got old bets in 70 from j&c Pennys she shot good had 22 target sights on her I put on won 20 dollars one time 70 gr and maxi ball twas lees still has it hit a pocket watch at 75 yards My daddy twas there one of his friends lost the bet

 

[Col. Batguano]

There are a few LR's that are "right" as cap guns, but not that many. Bedfords for instance. Don't hear of many builders making them either.

 

[nessmuk]

Get both.

 

[Cowboy]

I personally own several of both types. I personally have no preference or leaning to one type over the other. As for me, the same could be said about flintlock or percussion. Both types of rifles have a very special place in my heart. Both types of ignition systems as well!

I’m a sucker for a close to authentic looking Hawken Rifle. It definitely has a beauty of its own. I own a GRRW Hawken, Sharon Hawken, Another Pedersoli RMH, Don Stith Hawken, to include a couple of GPR’s. These I consider to be close copies of the Hawken Rifle’s. Also own my share of CVA and TC Guns but I’m not talking about them.

On the other hand I also own both production and custom Longrifle’s as well in a wide variety of caliber’s. I also have a special place in my heart for them as well!

In conclusion, I can’t give you any opinion leaning towards any one type or ignition system on them.

I will say though, that I personally like a Flintlock on a Longrifle which would be a full stock. Percussion for a Plains type Rifle and would be half stock. This is what I personally prefer in my muzzleloader’s. To each his own my friend! There’s no wrong or right answer here for you.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[coloradoclyde]

Get both.

Always the best answer....

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Not me....I didn't start shooting muzzleloaders because I wanted something that was similar to what I was already shooting......I wanted something new and exciting.....Something different. Black powder,round balls , using a powder horn and a ramrod.....I get the same feeling now as I did back then when I think about it... I wanted something like Davey Crocket.

Well thar's a generalization.

Nothing from keeping someone from using a ramrod, horn, pouch, the same things used traditionally with the longer pieces from back east. The old timers sure used the same thing with their "neat Hawkins guns" as it were.

Now today, the word "Hawken" doesn't mean what it used to. Now it's just a catch all for basically any half stock sidelock gun, oft of the caplock variety but also available in flint (a rare combination in the old days). It is a coloqueilism for what has been called a "plains rifle" in collectors circles.

The true Hawken rifle was made by none other than Jake and Sam Hawken, in St. Louis. Their plains rifles were renowned for high quality. One can think of it is how we use "Kleenex" to refer to all tissues. Many, many companies make plains rifle style guns and slap "Hawken" on to it. It sells, people know that name.

Interestingly the gun above, the Lyman Great Plains Rifle, is and never was referred to as a "Hawken rifle" by Lyman, even though it's much closer to the real deal as some of the other brands that choose to use the name.

 

[don hepler]

Plains rifle, would probably better describe most half stock rifles. Although, there was a lot of variation even within the Hawken rifles themselves.

Full stock Hawkens and early Hawkens, or even the Kit Carson, only share some of the same characteristics.

I am in a shooting club, with Don Stith, who is one of the most knowledgeable persons on the Hawken rifles. His kits are copied off of original Hawken rifles.

 

[don hepler]

Choosing a gun for hunting in Oklahoma would probably differ, from one used in eastern hunting.

I use a Tip Curtis, Late Virginia, with a swamped barrel, in 50 cal. It is very light and balances perfectly. However, it is not a good choice when hunting from a tree stand. Mostly walk and stalk.

I use a half stock, mostly for stand hunting.

Target shooting could be either.

Gotta have both.

 

[54ball]

CVA had 2 piece stocks but I'm pretty sure they never used 2 piece barrels. The was Hi-Standard and other brand names that imported that stuff from Japan.
CVA opened in 1971 and I do believe they used American components the first few years.

 

[dh9]

Appreciate all the replies!

 

[crockett]

Depends on what part of Oklahoma- eastern area has woods.
Oh, one more thing...
On cleaning, a lot of the half stock Hawkens have a hooked breech, you can remove the barrel from the stock for cleaning- might be a factor in making a decision.

 

[Elkeater]

Which style do you think performs better at target and hunting? Which do you find more pleasant to shoot. Just looking for opinions. Might get a new gun for Christmas!

My 50" barrel is slightly more accurate. It is the newest to me; will hunt prairie goats soon. The 26" is with me when hunting in the mountains.
Like most here I like to play with both. They are .54 percussian.

 

[rdstrain49]

Cleaning a hooked breech was at one time easier for me than a pinned barrel. Now that I have switched to Dutch's "nearly waterless cleaning system" there is no difference regarding ease of cleaning.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Is this the one where he sprays Water Displacement No. 40 down barrel?