Hawken Rifles Part II

Fred, the pics came out great! I hope you enjoyed them.

Jeff

 

[sse]

Does anyone have an idea as to when that antique was made?

Thanks, sse

 

Davy, thanks for the pics. That is a neat neat thing. The only rifles by W. Hawken that I have seen to date were iron mounted S. Hawken looking rifles. If I were to hazard a guess and it would only be a guess, I would say late 1830's early 40's. If it was made in St. Louis it could possibly be as late as the 1850's for the local squirrel shooters. Just hard to say for sure. It has a Gibbons lock on it. Anybody have the dates of Gibbons manufacture for locks? Maybe that would help narrow it down some.
Don

 

Don, according to John Baird, Thomas Gibbons is listed in the St. Louis directories as a dealer in guns, and pistols. in 1879 he was listed in one of the directories as a Gunsmith.

His locks are frequently found on Hawken rifles made after 1859. His locks are also found on rifles made by H.E. Dimmick.

 

[reddogge]

Cooner54, I have several pictures of a MD Hawken rifle and I posted them a couple of months ago but no one seemed interested. They are poor quality since they are just scans of photos which date back to the early 80's. After seeing the rifle done by Wm Hawken above I see similarities between the rifles although this one is full stock.

I'd be glad to post them again if you wish.

 

[davy]

Cooner54, I have several pictures of a MD Hawken rifle and I posted them a couple of months ago but no one seemed interested. They are poor quality since they are just scans of photos which date back to the early 80's. After seeing the rifle done by Wm Hawken above I see similarities between the rifles although this one is full stock.

I'd be glad to post them again if you wish.

Nows the time it seems! :thumbsup:

Davy

 

Thanks Flyboy, that date of 1859 for a Gibbons lock on a Hawken certainly narrows it down quite a bit. William goes to Denver in 1860. Maybe this was made in Denver. If not the date of manufacture on this rifle must be 1859-60. That's the best we can do until more info pops up. I wonder if W. Hawken had access to Gibbon locks earlier than that date. :hmm:
Don

 

:shocked2: You betchya Reddogge, I would like to see it.
Don

 

[reddogge]

They are 20+ years old so not of the best quality. I had a friend who owned it and I took some photos of it one day. He said it was made by a MD Hawken relation. That German silver cheek plate looks similar as does the brass trigger guard and buttplate. It is a full stock rifle though but it had a shorter barrel than most full stocks.

 

[gmww]

Hey Fred did you ever get that item you ordered from MO? :hmm:

 

[faw3]

NO word yet, Ive been down this week end hospitals just make me so worn out. Thanks to eveyone for the pics we need more. I guess its a good thing I didnt put up "Show your Plains Rifle" we would of got swamped, :hmm: maybe next time? Ill go try and call that guy again. Fred :hatsoff:

 

Reddogge, that is a very interesting rifle. That's the kind of gun you wish would talk to ya and tell it's life story. Did you take any notes and/or measurements of this rifle?
Thanks for posting,
Don

 

[faw3]

Rifle is on way at last sent Friday, his wife wasnt kidding about staying on him , she got done in 4 days what I couldnt in 4 weeks. Im headed back to ER you guys keep this going Fred :hatsoff:

 

[reddogge]

No, unfortunately I didn't and I lost track of my friend who owned it. It didn't hit me until I saw that rifle in the add posted above built by Wm Hawken of MD that this rifle had too many similarities to be a coincidence. The cheek piece inlay, buttplate and trigger guard are virtually the same. The cheek inlay had engraving on it though and the eagle motif looks familiar.

Perhaps Davy could enhance the pictures a little so we can see some detail.

 

[davy]

No, unfortunately I didn't and I lost track of my friend who owned it. It didn't hit me until I saw that rifle in the add posted above built by Wm Hawken of MD that this rifle had too many similarities to be a coincidence. The cheek piece inlay, buttplate and trigger guard are virtually the same. The cheek inlay had engraving on it though and the eagle motif looks familiar.

Perhaps Davy could enhance the pictures a little so we can see some detail.

Well heres the best I can do with them .. thye are pretty faded.

Davy

 

Very interesting rifle Reddogge. Can you provide us with more info on it concerning it's specs?

 

[reddogge]

Davy,
Thanks for trying. They're a little bigger which helps some.

flyboy,
No I can't. I took the pics. 26 years ago and the person who owned it I've lost track of. He brought it to a shoot and we were looking it over pretty good. It had a Hawken signature but at the time, if it didn't say J or S Hawken, we didn't pay it much mind. He told me it was built by a J&S Hawken relative who lived in MD.

I was struck by the similarities in the auction post above to the Wm Hawken rifle from MD for sale. It was proportioned more like a half stock rifle even though it was full stock. Wish I could go back in time because with a little prodding and cash I could have owned it.

 

William Hawken, the younger brother of Jake and Sam Hawken, took over his fathers shop in Hagerstown, Maryland and operated it until about 1855 according to Chuck Hansons research.

The ST. Louis directory of 1859 lists the Hawken business being in the name of William S. Hawken. William S. Hawken apparently went to Denver Colorado to work with his father in 1860.

There have been references to rifles marked W.S. Hawken, Denver, Colorado. But, according to Bairds' research, there are no known barrels marked S. Hawken, Denver, Colorado.

 

[faw3]

The Hawken came today, will try to get pics up in a few days. It looks like it was cut out yesterday not 85, not a nick or scratch on the wood just some light rust on the barrel. Im really in awe something like this could sit in a gun shop for 20 yrs not sell and look so clean. Fred :hatsoff: Now what to do with it?

 

[davy]

The Hawken came today, will try to get pics up in a few days. It looks like it was cut out yesterday not 85, not a nick or scratch on the wood just some light rust on the barrel. Im really in awe something like this could sit in a gun shop for 20 yrs not sell and look so clean. Fred :hatsoff: Now what to do with it?

Go ahead and send it to me ... I know what to do with it Fred! :thumbsup:

Davy