Hawken .54 Kit built 28 years ago

[dharris]

I've been able to get good accuracy from my T/C Hawken .54 with Power Belt "Aero Tips" and Hornady "Great Plains" 425 gn HBHP.

With PRB, not so much. But, this is probably because I don't know what I'm doing... I am using Hornady .530 and .535 swaged balls with .010 patches propelled by Goex FFg or Pyrodex RS. My barrel has shallow rifling and is probably a 1/48 twist, although when I tried to measure the twist I got 1/56, but my measurement method was probably lacking.

I've noticed a lot of expertise on this forum, so I am open to suggestions on improving my PRB accuracy...

 

[Phil Coffins]

T/Cs are capable of fine accuracy with round ball. Patch fit would be the first place I would act on. The ball should be a firm fit to start then go down with a firm push. The rifling depth is adequate and matching the patch and ball is the trick. I had a fellow beat my custom rifle with Green Mountain barrel just this past match with his T/C shooting round ball. But I didn't sleep well and had a hangover besides my shooting glasses are out of date, ext. ext. ext.

 

[mushka]

I've a TC hawkin I built in the late 80's too. I use the .535 rb and .018 patches. Works well. Probably need a thicker patch for your rifle to do well. Try the .015's too.

 

[Grenadier1758]

You have been using the lead conicals. I suspect that there is lead build up in the grooves that will have to be removed before accuracy with the round ball will be achieved.

 

[SDSmlf]

I have a 1980 vintage TC 54 made from a kit and purchased TC’s Maxiball and Maxihunter molds when I got the kit. Never got either to shoot well out of that gun, but it’s accuracy with patched round balls was and is outstanding.

Agree with the others, your patch material is too thin. As for powder, Pyrodex will work, though it’s a bit tougher to ignite and takes more effort to clean after shooting. Once you have some thicker patch material, start with a 60 grain (by volume) charge of the Goex and work your way up in 5 grain increments until you find a sweet spot. You may also want to consider Dutch’s ‘Accuracy System’. Expect Dutch will chime in on this topic when he sees it. Good luck.

 

[dharris]

Thanks all... I will try thicker patch material. One of the problems I've had with PRB is flyers 6 to 10 inches out of the center of the group.

 

[renegadehunter]

I have a .54 TC Renegade, which has the same shallow rifling and 1:48 twist. When I first got into shooting it I also tried a .010" patch with a .530 RB. It shot all over the place and the patches were fried to a crisp. My most accurate combinations I've found so far are:

75 grains of 2f Goex or Scheutzen (rifle doesn't seem to care which, shoots both to the same POI)
.530 Speer RB

A .015" cotton patch lubed "damp" (can't squeeze any out of it with fingers) with Hoppes Black Powder Solvent. This is good for target shooting when the load won't sit in the barrel very long. Barrel has to be swabbed between every shot for best accuracy for me, but you could load these over and over without swabbing.

TC store bought .015" patches with Wonderlube. I hate trying to clean Borebutter or Wonderlube types of lube out of my barrel at the end of the day (I find that they burn into a hard waxy substance that is a pain to get out), but with that being said these patches have given me the best groups to date. I tried to shoot these without cleaning between every shot to check accuracy if I didn't swab, but the third shot loaded so hard that I quickly abandoned that idea. I just swab every shot.
I can mentally hear the groans from some of the folks when reading this about store bought lubed patches, but my rifle just loves the stupid things for some reason.

I like to experiment with lubes and have just started playing around with 3f powder as well, but the above remains my most accurate so far to date. Olive oil as a lube shows some promise. A Castor Oil / Denatured alcohol lube combo (laid out to dry) is showing some promise too, need to play with ratios a bit more.

 

[Grenadier1758]

If your rifle likes the store bought lubricated patches, then disregard my groaning. If it works for you then keep on using those store bought patches.

 

[renegadehunter]

If your rifle likes the store bought lubricated patches, then disregard my groaning. If it works for you then keep on using those store bought patches.

The problem is I hate trying to clean it out of the bore at the end of the day. Wonderlube seems to clean out pretty good if hot water is used, but every time I use even warm water I get flash rust really bad. I use tepid or cold water and there's no flash rust, but the Wonderlube is still there. I recently read that chlorine in your water can possibly cause the flash rust when using hot, so perhaps I'll try boiling my city tap water first one of these days. A while back I went ahead and used some hot water to get all of the waxy crud out and just dealt with the flash rust, aka made sure it was all wiped out of the bore, and for the last several shooting sessions I've tried several different lubes. While I haven't found one that it will shoot as well yet, it is an absolute pleasure to clean.

 

[arcticap]

I've found that Pyrodex is more sensitive to how much that it is compressed compared to black powder.
It's something to always be aware of no matter which patches end up being used.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Water by itself won't dissolve the oils. You need a drop or two of dish washing detergent. You need something to cut the oils in the wonderlube and the detergent will do it. As you have learned to avoid boiling hot water, you need to add some detergent to remove the fouling crud and the burnt in oils.

In your case, I would also try to clean the lead from all those years of shooting the conicals. The T/C doesn't have the depth of rifling to accommodate all that lead. The use of bore brush with a bit if a Copper Chore Boy pad will get after the lead.

Now that you have the Wonderlube out of the bore and lead out of the grooves, you need to use some WD40 or rubbing alcohol to remove the water. I like to use a few patches wet with Ballistol to get the last of the fouling out. The last step is the wiping with a rust inhibiting lubrication. By name I would use Barricade.

Once you get your rifle really clean then the next time will be a lot easier.

Get a thicker patch and use a mix of the Ballistol with water. One part Ballistol and 6 to 7 parts of water. Get the patching material from a fabric store and it should be in the 0.015 to 0.020" thick and close weave 100% cotton.

Go shooting.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I buy the pre-cut dry patches from TOW and pre-lube with mink.
Works great for me and is VERY convenient. I prelube 30 or 40 at a time and store them in cap tins.
Perfect for pocket or bag.

 

[burlesontom]

I almost gave up on BP because I started with .010 patch material that came in a Cabelas starter kit. The patches were burnt up and I didn't know know what I was looking at. A read a book bt Sam Fadala and learned to read patches. I found out what my problem was.

I would try a .530 ball and at least .015 patches and check the spent patches. I also when shooting load a patch under the patched ball to work as a firewall when using 70grs or more of powder. When I do that the ball patches could almost be reused they are in such good shape. Just a thought.

 

[dharris]

I almost gave up on BP because I started with .010 patch material that came in a Cabelas starter kit. The patches were burnt up and I didn't know know what I was looking at. A read a book bt Sam Fadala and learned to read patches. I found out what my problem was.

I would try a .530 ball and at least .015 patches and check the spent patches. I also when shooting load a patch under the patched ball to work as a firewall when using 70grs or more of powder. When I do that the ball patches could almost be reused they are in such good shape. Just a thought.

Thanks! I gave up on it for awhile, but got re-interested after finding this forum...

 

[Dr5x]

YOU ALSO HAVE SMALLER FLYERS THAT YOU ASSUME WAS YOUR FAULT. IF YOU ARE SHOOTING SWAGED BALLS YOU CAN HAVE AS MANY AS10 FLYERS OUT OF A HUNDRED PURCHASED/

DUTCH SCHOULTZ

Thanks all... I will try thicker patch material. One of the problems I've had with PRB is flyers 6 to 10 inches out of the center of the group.

 

[dharris]

YOU ALSO HAVE SMALLER FLYERS THAT YOU ASSUME WAS YOUR FAULT. IF YOU ARE SHOOTING SWAGED BALLS YOU CAN HAVE AS MANY AS10 FLYERS OUT OF A HUNDRED PURCHASED/

DUTCH SCHOULTZ

Thank you fo this information! I would have thought swaged balls would be more consistent than cast.

 

[Grenadier1758]

While you won't have casting voids, you may find some that are underweight.

 

[Dr5x]

Harris,
If you were a nit picker like me, you would have a scale that measured in grains. Most.if not all reloads seem to have one.
Weighing out self cast lead balls, if properly done may give you five balls out of a hundred that are more than a grain lighter than the heaviest ball.
Swaged balls, Hornady or Speer will gives many as 22 or even25 balls out of a hundred that are all over the plce varying from one grain lighter to several grains lighter.
If the lightness is caused by an air bubble iin the the center of the ball, on the axis it spins around, it won't make much difference. But the further away from that axis is, the greater the effect it it will have in throwing the ball off its course.
A SWAT team member told me that they reload all their ammunition. That order 1,000 copper jacketed bullets from Hornady, weigh them out and reject about 800. They aerial nit picked but they want to hit the guy behind the hostage, and not the hostage so they want absolutely no deflection.
He wasn't sure about my System till he saw I suggested weighing out the lead balls.

Quite a few subscribers have reported to me how surprised they were by the weight variations in swaged balls which are so pretty and so expensive.

Sorry for the harangue but that piece of information is very important to me.

Dutch Schoultz

UOTE="dharris, post: 1534454, member: 30045"]Thank you fo this information! I would have thought swaged balls would be more consistent than cast.[/QUOTE]

 

[Dr5x]

If you have two cast balls of the same exact size made of the same lead and one is lighter than the other there has to be ann air bubble or lighter weight inclusion in the lighter balls. There can be no other explanation unless you believe there are elves involved.

DutchSchoultz

t

While you won't have casting voids, you may find some that are underweight.

 

[dharris]

Today, I used .015 patches, 530 Hornady swaged balls, 65 gns FFg... Results were excellent! No flyers and a nice three inch group at 50 yards, in fact the best PRB results ever with this rifle, and this was without my glasses.

As per Dutch Schoultz, I weighed the swaged balls. Also, per Mr. Schoultz, tightened up my patch lube procedures. I can now see the wisdom of the Dutch procedure.

This forum has reignited interest in my Hawken .54! Thank you...