Hard times for BP shooters

[doubleset]

I have always understood that BP is an explosive where Smokeless is not.

Wrong.

 

[gunpa]

I've got powder a plenty for my uses. Had to switch to musket caps cause that's all To be found but still makin plenty of smoke when the rotten weather will allow.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Wrong.

Well, i take my information from the source. ATF site!

"
Is black powder subject to regulation under federal explosives laws?

Black powder is an explosive material for purposes of federal explosives laws and regulations.
However, the law exempts from regulation commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not exceeding 50 pounds (as well as percussion caps, safety and pyrotechnic fuses, quills, quick and slow matches, and friction primers) intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16) or in antique devices exempted from the term "destructive device" in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(4).
Regardless, persons engaged in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in black powder in any quantity must have a federal explosives license, and comply with recordkeeping, storage and conduct of business requirements.
[18 U.S.C. 841(c), 841(d), 845(a)(5); 27 CFR 555.11: definitions of "explosives" and "explosive materials", 555.141(b)]

Last Reviewed January 22, 2020

 

[doubleset]

Well, i take my information from the source. ATF site!

Wise. Unfortunately for some, the trick is in how well and carefully they read it and understand it (and the other documents necessary for interpreting it correctly) -- and not try to cherry-pick parts out of it that they use to bolster their own odd beliefs. There's no shortage of other authoritative literature (from sources such as ATF and others) for anyone who really wants to learn the truth.

But if someone decides to read "exempts from regulation commercially manufactured black power" as "exempts from regulation commercially manufactured black power", and stick with that because it suits their view of the world, then that's on them.

It's really important how carefully you read and how you express things. For example when you said

I have always understood that BP is an explosive where Smokeless is not.

You said two things: (1) that you understood that BP is an explosive, and (2) that Smokeless is not.

But you're wrong: Smokeless IS an explosive -- as BP is.

 

[Brazos John]

engaged in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in black powder in any quantity

Most of us don't import or manufacture, but what constitutes Dealing?
Is buying BP from a retail seller, for personal use, considered Dealing?

 

[2 shots]

yes. on his part.

 

[tenngun]

Where do people get these beliefs? From the Goex site:

Black powder is a Division 1.1 Explosive. and detonation may​

cause severe physical injury, including death.​

That's not being "it's [sic] own category of explosive". That's being a category 1.1 explosive. Maybe just try reading the entire GOEX Powder, Inc MSDS to see how much it talks about black powder being an explosive. The word "explosive" occurs 27 times in that document.

Or if you'd like a different perspective and careful descriptions of explosives, including black powder, just check the Britannica article on "explosive: chemical product".

People really need to stop making this stuff up as they go along just to try to justify their own hopes and dreams.

I not arguing with you. And I have no axe to grind here, I don’t have any hopes or dreams to be justified.
It’s own catagory comes from where it sits.
How fast is the burn rate for high explosives?
How fast is the burn rate for low explosive?
What’s the burn rate for Black powder?
So I’m understanding your point. BP is just it’s own
Much like it’s dedicated shooters

 

[Snake Pleskin]

I also have this.

 

[Scota@4570]

I have no intention of making BP. I have no opinion of the legality of doing so.

The fact is that some people make BP without legal hassles. There is a company that supplies materials and information. They may be able to give advice. I doubt that would be openly doing business if it was illegal every where. If it were illegal they could not be in business.

https://www.skylighter.com/collections/black-powder-kits

 

[Snake Pleskin]

I also have this.View attachment 138610

It is VER clear. YOU can not make BP, Period. If you do, you need a Federal Explosives License. Yu may use ONLY Commercially Manufacture Black Powder. It is plain to see & understand for anyone that wants too! If you do not get this, you probably should not be shooting.

 

[Okie Hog]

i feel for flintlock shooters who can't obtain black powder. Users of percussion guns have alternatives to black powder.

As for myself: Ain't making any black powder. Stopped using the stuff years ago. Got enough Pyrodex, 777, JSG, Pinnacle and Black MZ to last a young shooter a lifetime.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

I have no intention of making BP.

Some people make BP. There is a company that can supply material and information. They may be able to give advice. I doubt that would be openly doing business if it was illegal every where.

https://www.skylighter.com/collections/black-powder-kits

Reading about it and making it are not the same. I can also get fill auto parts on many different sites, which are legal, until I try to install them.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Also, any use of BP in exploding targets etc., or anything like that, is prohibited without a Federal License.

 

[Okie Hog]

Deleted-duplicate

 

[Cruzatte]

Just curious how many of you out there have resorted to making your own powder in these hard and expensive times, and if you are making your own, how’s it working out for you?

What hard times?

 

[Rangefogger]

Okay so what I’m seeing here is you are not allowed to make your own black powder without a license… so that takes that option off the table. Looks like I’ll be buying Swiss! Thankful for the all of the wonderful “Freedom” we have here in the U.S.

 

[Rangefogger]

What hard times?

Uhm… It’s harder to get black powder than it used to be.

 

[Cruzatte]

Uhm… It’s harder to get black powder than it used to be.

So I'd heard. Haven't experienced any of that. The price has certainly gone up. But still I can purchase it through the rifle club I've been a member of just like always.

 

[Scota@4570]

Exploding targets are illegal? Not so, Tannerite is legal. You don't need a federal license. It is readily available.

The fireworks guys are making BP for themselves. IF someone wants to know simply call the vendor I linked and find out. He is openly selling kits to make BP. It must me legal some place and under some circumstances, or he's be shut down.

I have no particular interest in this, so I am not going to make a call for others who are interested.

 

[doubleset]

I not arguing with you. And I have no axe to grind here, I don’t have any hopes or dreams to be justified.
It’s own catagory comes from where it sits.
How fast is the burn rate for high explosives?
How fast is the burn rate for low explosive?

Not sure what your point is here, but both black and smokeless gun powders are low explosives. Don't be confused by claims to the contrary on any number of forums like this one. There is abundant technical literature making the low/high explosive distinction clear and indicating how smokeless powder is a low explosive. From the point of view of the ATF. black and smokeless powders fall into slightly different subclasses of low explosives, but that's all there is to the distinction. This really isn't a matter for debate, although people like to debate it in the absence of understanding it.

As just one example, in its forensic science communication on the manufacture of smokeless powders, the FBI remarks that "The safest and most powerful low-order explosive is smokeless powder."