Half Stock Percussion Smooth Bore Indentification

[user 30160]

I am working with an historical society in an attempt to identify the maker, and date range of a .40 cal, half stock, smooth bore. The owners said some relatives from Tennessee gave it to them.
I've tried searching by lock-plate design and trigger guard design, but no luck with a match.
While I'm not positive, I'm guessing the barrel is between 38" and 40". (The musket's in another state and I've requested the barrel length, but still waiting.)
There are some photos via the attached Dropbox link. Any help in identifying this would be appreciated.
Half Stock, .40 cal Musket

 

[54ball]

That's a late percussion halfstock rifle. It may be smooth now but most likely it was rifled when made. Small bores were common in the era...1860-1900. It's not uncommon to find well used rifles bored smooth.
Region...East of the Mississippi, likely Ohioish.
Really the only hope for positive ID would be a signature on the top barrel flat. These are usually signed by the maker between the rear sight an breech.

 

[user 30160]

Thanks, 54ball. Out of curiosity, how do you know it's a rifle, even tho it's smooth now? Is it the halfstock? Also, What makes you say, "east of the Mississippi"? I'm itching for some learnin'. I wish I knew the significance of the nose cap markings, "R" and "JD".
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That's a late percussion halfstock rifle. It may be smooth now but most likely it was rifled when made. Small bores were common in the era...1860-1900. It's not uncommon to find well used rifles bored smooth.
Region...East of the Mississippi, likely Ohioish.
Really the only hope for positive ID would be a signature on the top barrel flat. These are usually signed by the maker between the rear sight an breech.

 

[Donny]

The octagon bbl is the giveaway. And it has a rifle buttplate for starters.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Lock certainly has the look of the type Leman and Deringer used and would be fairly common to Penn. and Ohio built rifles of the 1830-1860 era. The trigger guard is verysimilar to one from a Caleb Vincent built rifle(an Ohio builder)...though not 100%. many old rifles had their bores polished out when they wore down to see furthre use as light shotguns. This is where teh ternm "smooth rilfe" came from....thouigh, in fact, some guns were made as smoothbores with a typically rifle layout.

 

[user 30160]

It was said that the gun came out of Tenn, but maybe not. Thanks for the lock plate hint. It seems there were a huge number of gunsmiths in Ohio and PA. Looks like without appropriate markings, the chances of accurate identification are pretty small. However, I searched until I found a near exact replica of the trigger guard, currently being made by a company from Woodville, OH. It's called the "Ohio Style (wide) Trigger Guard. Additionally, a "Pennsylvania Rifle" kit I made in the 70s has a typical Ohio, double-hook design.. Here's the replica trigger guard: Replica Trigger Guard from RE Davis

Lock certainly has the look of the type Leman and Deringer used and would be fairly common to Penn. and Ohio built rifles of the 1830-1860 era. The trigger guard is verysimilar to one from a Caleb Vincent built rifle(an Ohio builder)...though not 100%. many old rifles had their bores polished out when they wore down to see furthre use as light shotguns. This is where teh ternm "smooth rilfe" came from....thouigh, in fact, some guns were made as smoothbores with a typically rifle layout.

 

[smoothshooter]

Not a musket.
A musket is a whole different kind of gun.

 

[bennypapa]

The nosecap markings are likely owners initials.

As to the question "was it originally rifled?"...
The buttplate is all wrong for a shotgun. Think about shooting at birds, you need to get the gun to your shoulder quickly and that buttplate would make it difficult.
You wouldn't really need double set triggers for a shotgun or a musket for that matter. Doesn't mean the maker would not have used them if they had been the only triggers available, just not the most likely choice for a gun intended to be a smoothbore from the start.

If you get access to the gun, and can verify that it isn't loaded, and have a bore light you might be able to see if there are some remnants of rifling left in the bore.

The trigger guard would likely be bought by the gunmaker off the shelf so many makers in many areas could have had access to that same exact guard.

All above should be regarded as opinion.
I'm often wrong. Ask my wife.

 

[user 30160]

Thanks, Bennypapa. All good info. Funny you should mention "Verify that it isn't loaded". I am discussing another of my BP guns on a different forum, where the same advice was given. Turns out the pistol WAS loaded.... I'll check with the owners to see if they know someone with those initials... The butt plate comments definitely make sense. Thanks again!

The nosecap markings are likely owners initials.

As to the question "was it originally rifled?"...
The buttplate is all wrong for a shotgun. Think about shooting at birds, you need to get the gun to your shoulder quickly and that buttplate would make it difficult.
You wouldn't really need double set triggers for a shotgun or a musket for that matter. Doesn't mean the maker would not have used them if they had been the only triggers available, just not the most likely choice for a gun intended to be a smoothbore from the start.

If you get access to the gun, and can verify that it isn't loaded, and have a bore light you might be able to see if there are some remnants of rifling left in the bore.

The trigger guard would likely be bought by the gunmaker off the shelf so many makers in many areas could have had access to that same exact guard.

All above should be regarded as opinion.
I'm often wrong. Ask my wife.

 

[frogwalking]

It may well be a smoothbore. If so, it would be called a smooth rifle. Many guns were originally made this way and many more were bored smooth later. Up to 60 yards, these smooth rifles can shoot almost as well as a regular rifle, and they can also use shot. Often the bore is too small for efficient shot use, but smooth rifles were less expensive than rifled guns. It looks to be in pretty good condition. Please don't clean it up as you will destroy it's value, both in $ and in what people may be able to learn from it.