• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades
  • Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Hair trigger

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I'm not necessarily talking about a lighter pull. Personally I prefer about 1.5-3 lbs if it breaks cleanly without creep every time.
We are talking about proper engagement and consistent release for a safe trigger that affords the best control and by extension accuracy.
A creep free trigger that breaks at 3 lbs every time is far more controllable and safe than one that is under a pound with creep and can be jarred off.
 
Pardon me.

I was thinking of your earlier post which said,

"The best method I have ever found to reduce pull weight and creep is to install a sear lift in the full cock notch which maintains the original hammer and trigger nose geometry."
 
The point I want to make is that squaring up engagement surface and eliminating creep does limit trigger pull weight to only being reduced.
Weight of pull can still be increased while maintaining the best characteristics of good fitting: ie clean break, no creep,no back lash and minimum over travel.
 
Got A new hammer and trigger. put it back together. Now when cocking the hammer, it is not catching the half of full cock notches unless I push the trigger forward. The bolt spring looks fine. Did I do something wrong?
 
Is the trigger/bolt spring installed properly? Is it broken or installed upside down? The spring should be installed concave side up with the long leg to the left side. One leg pushes up on the trigger to hold it against the hammer. If the trouble isn't there it's possible the parts aren't compatible with your frame, trigger too short or a slightly smaller hammer.
 
Took it apart and reassembled, working now.
But, I can pull the trigger, dropping the hammer at half cock, but the hammer will not fall when pushed by hand.
 
Correction, when at half cock, I can pull the trigger, and the hammer drops, but at half cock, I can push the hammer forward, and it will not move at all.
 
That's good.

OK, so while the hammer drops, does it seem like the hammer is bumping/catching on the half cock when the hammer falls past? If not, that's a good thing and how it is supposed to function.

Now, if you pull the trigger and hold the hammer as it goes down and let off the trigger, it sounds like the hammer goes into half cock, correct? If so, then it is working correctly.

Now when the hammer is set on half cock, you should not be able to pull the trigger again and have the hammer fall all the way home. The way to get the hammer free of half cock notch is to pull the hammer back to full cock and then when you want to let it down or fire it, you pull the trigger again.

Gus
 
When I pull the hammer to half cock, I can pull the trigger and the hammer will fall every time. The hammer and trigger are new, this has me baffled...
 
It sounds to me like the half cock notch in the hammer is just a hair too narrow for the sear on the trigger to slip into.

You might want to check for small burrs in the notch in the hammer. If you find any, remove them with a small file or perhaps use the cutting edge of a hand held drill bit. (Not in a drill.)
 
Thanks, that makes sense, just strange that at half cock, I cannot force the hammer forward by hand, will not budge.
With all the help on this forum, I am on the way to being a real shade tree gunsmith!
 
Well, maybe I didn't read your previous post thoroughly enough?

If you was saying, "With the gun at half cock, I can't push the hammer forward.
With it in this condition, if I then pull the hammer back just a little bit and then I pull the trigger with my thumb on the hammer, I can let the hammer fall to the fired position.", then everything is working like it should.

Try this:
With the hammer in the fired position and without your finger on the trigger, pull the hammer back slowly. Watch the trigger when you are doing this.

As the hammer moves toward half cock, the trigger should move slightly rearward.
Then, as the hammer is pulled back slightly further you should hear a definite "click" and the trigger should move forward, considerably further than it was before you started.

That "click" is the hammer sear entering the half cock notch and the reason the trigger moves forward much further than it was when you started is because the trigger sear has fallen into the half cock notch.

If the trigger just moves slightly forward when you hear the click, the sear has not fully entered the half cock notch.

Summing it up, with the hammer down, note the position of the trigger.
Pull the hammer back slowly. The trigger should move slightly back and then move forward quite a lot.

Pulling the hammer back further, the trigger will again move back until the full cock position is reached.
When the full cock position is reached, the trigger should move forward with a "click", ending up slightly forward of where it was before you started.
The trigger sear is now in the full cock notch.
 
All works as you say, but with the pistol at half cock I can still pull the trigger, and the hammer will release. I am not touching the hammer at all, just pulling the trigger at half cock will drop the hammer.
 
It sounds like the nose of the trigger is not entering the halfcock notch. The sear should enter the notch to prevent what you describe from happening. If the sear just bears against or very slightly enters the halfcock notch it will function the same as the fullcock. Pushing forward on the hammer is not a way to check a halfcock. Check the notch for burrs, chips or dirt blocking it as well as damage possibly from hitting the trigger nose as the gun was fired..
 
Since the hammer and trigger are new, maybe I need to take it all apart, and check the trigger and hammer for fit. Still learning a lot from everyone's posts, thanks.
 
OK, from many years of doing "trigger jobs" or lightening trigger pulls on Original and Repro WBTS Muskets and Revolvers - I have found there was/is a LOT of WRONG information on how to check half cock notches that will actually DAMAGE the half cock notches and/or sear faces.

On one of the very first trigger jobs I did in the early 70’s on an inexpensive Italian lock, a customer brought back a musket I had worked on for some time, claiming the trigger pull had “gone to heck” and other problems. When I took the lock off the gun, I found BOTH the sear tip and the half cock notch had been broke off. Then I asked the owner what had been done to the musket after I had returned it. He told me “A Friend of his had checked the half cock notch and it didn’t work.”

So I asked him how his friend had checked it. He informed me his friend had pounded on the hammer with the heel of his hand against the hammer while it was on half cock until the half cock “didn’t work anymore.” I informed him his friend had just ruined the sear and half cock by doing something that was expressly forbidden by the Civil War Ordnance Manuals and showed him the section in my repro copy of the U.S. Ordnance Manual that talked about it. I felt sorry for him because he did not know any better and informed him he would have to pay for a new sear and tumbler, but I would do the trigger job again for free AS LONG AS he did not allow his friend to “do that BS test again.” His friend came up later rather belligerently that he had not done the test correctly, so I pulled the Ordnance Manual and showed him. His friend tried to bluster his way through, but fortunately the Main NSSA Inspector of Ordnance was there and said I was right and he was wrong. I asked "his friend" if he was such an expert, why hadn't he done the trigger job?

The CORRECT way to test the half cock on a musket had always been to put the hammer on half cock and turn the musket upside down. Then one put/s the trigger finger on the musket and allowed/allows the weight of the musket to be suspended by just the finger on the trigger. If the half cock notch held, then it was in correct condition. The same thing was/is done on revolvers to check the half cock notch by placing a finger on the trigger and holding the revolver muzzle down. As long as the half holds the weight of the revolver without pressing more on the trigger or pushing the hammer, then the half cock is working.

Now with a revolver, if when the hammer is on half cock and one pulls the trigger hard enough OR beats/pounds on the hammer, you can always cause the sear nose to slip out of the half cock notch and/or bust the sear tip of the trigger and/or the half cock notch of the hammer ”“ especially with some Italian revolvers where the parts are not made as good as the originals. That is NOT a valid test of the half cock notch and is actually doing damage to the parts.

OK, had to mention these things as it sounds like you may not have been checking the half cock correctly.

Yes, you need to take the revolver apart again to see if there is damage to the nose of the trigger or the half cock notch on the hammer.

If there is no noticeable damage to either part, then you just experienced why I mentioned earlier that a new hammer and trigger “may or should fix the problem,” but it is not CERTAIN it will fix the problem because you often have to adjust new parts to fit in repro revolvers. IOW, the parts are often not a “drop in fit” when you get them ”“ which sounds like it may be the case with your new trigger and hammer.

Zonie is correct there may be a burr or sharp edge on the half cock notch or the sear face of the trigger that is not allowing the sear face of the trigger to enter the half cock notch correctly. This was part of the reason I mentioned earlier using Hard Arkansas or India stones to get rid of burrs or sharp edges, before you put the parts in the revolver.

We are also assuming you actually received the correct parts for your brand of revolver and not parts made for another Manufacturer’s same Model of Revolver as yours. Parts made by one company will often NOT fit in the revolvers made by some other company, as the tolerance for the parts often are that much different.

Further over the decades, some manufacturers changed tolerances as time went on, so more recently made parts may not fit even their earlier revolvers without adjusting/tuning. This is why many gunsmiths recommend when buying a new revolver; that you immediately buy a new trigger, hand & spring, hammer, and trigger spring ”“ because you eventually are going to need them and later replacement parts may not fit.

Now IF as some others have mentioned that the sear nose of the trigger is not entering the half cock deep enough as it should and the problem is not a burr or sharp edge, then the sear notch has to be opened up to allow the sear nose to enter correctly. This is normally done with either stones or a combination of diamond files and stones, BUT is often beyond the ability of the Hobbyist to properly adjust and should be done by a qualified Armorer or Gunsmith. However, once you go taking metal off a hammer or sear, then you are responsible if the parts don’t fit. If that is what is going on, RATHER THAN doing the work yourself and risk ruining the parts, I would contact the company you got the repair parts from to see if they have a hammer that is made for your revolver with a wider half cock notch.

Finally, your only option to fix the revolver may be to have a qualified Armorer or Gunsmith fix it.

Gus
 
Let us see some good close up pictures of the new and old parts along side each other.
Check to make sure the screws fit the holes in the new parts without binding.
 
Back
Top