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Shiloh1944

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Thanks. I filed to achieve a good breach to tang fit, then use hot melt archery adhesive Ferr-L-Tight to hold the pieces together for draw filing. I ruined and repaired/replaced a few components also. The first build is quite a learning experience. I found I had to quadruple check for repeatable alignments and the rigidness of holding fixtures before doing any drilling operations.

View attachment 7042
How can you file on the tang or breach for a better fit when the hook on the breach and the slot on the tang where the hook fits are matched to lock together precisely. It seems to me any filing where the flat surfaces meet would only widen.
 

Shiloh1944

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Sorry for the multiple posts. Moderators please delete my mistakes, Sort of like me trying to build my rifle kit. o_O
 

Tom A Hawk

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How can you file on the tang or breach for a better fit when the hook on the breach and the slot on the tang where the hook fits are matched to lock together precisely. It seems to me any filing where the flat surfaces meet would only widen.
If they mate precisely there should not be a gap. I Inlet both barrel and tang fixed together as one assembled unit. If the breach and tang do not mate perfectly, inletting black can reveal points of contact. If your parts fit precisely when out of the stock but gap when in the stock, then an inletting issue must be the cause. A gap at the top might indicate the tang is seating out of alignment with the barrel.
 

Shiloh1944

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I cannot get the tang and barrel to mate seamlessly out of the stock. I did file enough to remove the casting line on the tang but no more for fear of messing up how the hook on the breach meshes with the slot in the tang since it is designed to fit precisely. The breach plug was installed to the barrel by TOTW. I did attach the tang to the breach so the barrel and tang could be inletted as one unit, but there is a slight gap (less than a mm) at the top between the tang and breach plug. If I make it where it is seamless at the top then there is a gap at the bottom and the tang and barrel do not look horizontally in alignment.
 

Tom A Hawk

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I cannot get the tang and barrel to mate seamlessly out of the stock. I did file enough to remove the casting line on the tang but no more for fear of messing up how the hook on the breach meshes with the slot in the tang since it is designed to fit precisely. The breach plug was installed to the barrel by TOTW. I did attach the tang to the breach so the barrel and tang could be inletted as one unit, but there is a slight gap (less than a mm) at the top between the tang and breach plug. If I make it where it is seamless at the top then there is a gap at the bottom and the tang and barrel do not look horizontally in alignment.
Well, I'm not an expert, but from the sounds of things, it would seem the fit of the tang and breach plug needs some work. If it rockers up and down there must be contact in the middle. Use inletting black or blueing or some other means to show where metal is in contact and needs to be removed. Get the two parts fitted flush then draw-file the outside surfaces as one assembled unit.
 

RHensley

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Well, I'm not an expert, but from the sounds of things, it would seem the fit of the tang and breach plug needs some work. If it rockers up and down there must be contact in the middle. Use inletting black or blueing or some other means to show where metal is in contact and needs to be removed. Get the two parts fitted flush then draw-file the outside surfaces as one assembled unit.
When I built my plains rifle with the hooked breech I use dykum ( this is a very blue liquid used by machinist to ck parts fitting. The spelling is wrong . I'm not an enlish teacher) After the tang and hook was fitted good I used just a little brass with torch to hold them together while I filed flush. then removed the brass. You could use solider or J B weld. anything that can be removed fairly easy. There are other ways but this was easy for me. I'm a welder / mechanic / retired.
 

The Crisco Kid

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I have a friend who did a lot of competitive shooting years ago. He said his scores went up quite a bit after he glued to hook breech parts together. I guess it got rid of some wobble.

JS
 

McClura

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Tom A Hawk, those are outstanding smoke poles! A work or art. I'm drooling all over my key board now looking at your rifles. The Longrifle is just a nice. Love the carving and wire inlays.
I'm a Hawken junky and that is one of the best looking rifles I've seen in a while. I'm kind of like you in that I have a "from scratch" Hawken I have been working on since 21 or so years. I started it in 1997 and was getting some help from a friend that had built about 100 rifles and we shot competition together for 22 years before I started this rifle. He passed in 1998 and I put it aside until last year.
I took up building Primitive Bows, arrows and stone points right after that so I have been busy.
It is a piece of Curly Ash. It was a plank, 2" x 12" x 70" from a guy in Missouri name Jay Ford. I'm using an Ed Rayl 1 1/8"x 38" .62 Caliber, 1-60 twist barrel. Large L&R Flint lock and double set triggers from Track. A good friend that I built an Osage Selfbow for years ago hand forged a Butt Plate and Trigger guard for me. I have the barrel and lock inlaid and I'm working on the butt plate now. I'm still trying to decide If I will put a nose cap on it or leave the wood bare at the muzzle. I've seen them both ways.
I have some orange/brown stain we made in 1997 for one of his rifles and will be using it on this ash.
Mike
 

Tom A Hawk

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Thanks Mike. Stick with it. The completion of these guns has been one of my more rewarding experiences. There is satisfaction to be derived from the finished project, the effort and craftsmanship involved and also their performance. I enjoy showing them off at the range and fellow shooters are impressed by how well they hit the mark.

I've also made self bows in Hickory, sinew backed Ash and American Hornbeam ( Ironwood ). Arrows were made from split ash and other woods. The points were knapped from Onondaga chert. Great personal satisfaction comes from accomplishing the challenge.
 

rshveyda

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Seeing craftsmanship like this makes me wish I'd taken woodshop and metalshop rather than photography and art in high school. It also makes me wonder where I'd be today if I had followed my father's advice and hired into the machine shop where he worked as an experimental machinist for Lockheed back in the late 80's. He offered to get me on in the tool crib and teach me what I needed to know from there.

I loved my chosen career, but there is something rewarding about working with your hands. As a kid I remember the satisfied look he'd get whenever he showed me something he had hand fabricated. He got us into muzzleloading when we were kids and he had a pretty good run when he got interested in building BP cannons for several years. His largest was something like 2.15" diameter bore so it could shoot soda cans full of plaster out of it. Not exactly historically correct but tons of fun.
 

IL Rifle

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Reading this thread I don’t feel so bad. I started my Pecatonica LRS Hawken almost 30 years ago about the time our daughter was born. With her and her younger brother, work and other things I hadn’t made much progress until recently. Plus, the internet wasn’t around when I started and this forum is a great help with how to do several processes in building a Hawken. I’ve been working on the rifle lately and hope to finish fitting and shaping by the end of the year. Started looking for a place to case harden the small bits. I’ll probably blue the barrel.

After I finish the Hawken I have an early Lancaster to finish that my brother started and I inherited. Plus I want to build a fowler/ fusil. Pec River is about 30 minutes from me so I can pick out a stock and parts. Good people to work with
 

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45man

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I have little to say because my mouth dropped open with the craftsmanship. There are not enough words and to just hold in my hands would make my life worth it. Thank you.
 

Cruzatte

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I can sympathize. It has taken me three years to get to the point where I am now, just about ready to finish my FDC.
 

Tom A Hawk

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Stick with it boys. These rifles have provided a great deal of satisfaction both at the range and also in the rack. I'm planning to lay in parts over the coming weeks to assemble a Southern Mountain style over the coming winter. Just deciding on caliber now. I have .50's and .54's so perhaps I'll going down a bit this time. A .40 is looking quite attractive at present.
 
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