Griswold Frame Stretch?

[Smokey Plainsman]

I’ve been really having fun with my Uberti .44 Remington revolver, it’s an absolute joy. But I really want a .36 caliber gun and want to try the Colt guns again. Years ago I owned an Uberti 1851 Navy in .36 and the caliber is fun to shoot, inexpensive, and nice for small game.

So I’ve always loved the looks and backstory on the Griswold & Gunnison brass framed .36s, which Pietta makes a replica of:

I am wondering though, how bad is the issue of frame stretching on this model? I know many say to avoid the brass framed .44s, but what of the .36s? I also know about the Spiller & Burr and owned the Pietta copy of that for a short time and didn’t like it. I’m really wanting to try a Colt style again, specifically the Griswold.

Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks!

-Smokey

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Moderate loads should give you years of shooting. Popeye syndrome "let's see what she can handle " loads will cause problems. It isn't so much the frame stretching as much as the arbor pulling loose, or sometimes, the cylinder hammering backward so much it actually mashes back the recoil surface enough to create timing issues and possibly both. There is also an odd energy curve for some black powder revolvers in which the 36 cylinder length leaves enough room for powder that the little 36 has almost as much ft lbs of energy as the 44 version. For guns built on the same frame (36 or 44) there may be just as much hammering for both caliber guns with heavy loads. The problem may not exist with the griswold. Never compared one to a similar 44 revolver (mostly cylinder length comparison) I always liked the colt open top style and lines, but for serious shooting, always went with the Remington Top strap style. (I used to shoot little 190 grain 45-70 bullets out of my Ruger Old Army. , but the felt recoil was more with round balls.)

 

[bang]

Just get the steel frame and won't have to be concerned. But 36 puts a lot less pressure on the frame then the 44. Recommended load on the colt 36 is 9-12 gns. Keep it 16 or less and should it stretch it will be years and then you can get a steel frame from a parts gun to trade out. Nice thing is the 44 frame and 36 frame are the same and so are the internals. I just picked up a 44 colt sheriff brass and traded out the brass with a steel 36 I have and it works perfect.

 

[ASMman]

Hello Smokey Plainsman,

The Brass Frames on a Colt replica really don't stretch, the Support Ring gets hammered out. Also the Arbor can work loose. Both Brass & Steel frames require the Arbor fit is correct. Arbor bottomed out at same position as Barrel & Frame meet.

Hope this helps, AntiqueSledMan.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks, all! It’s either this or the Uberti copy of the Pocket Navy, which has a steel frame. Hard choice...

 

[Zonie]

That picture is a fine example of what heavy powder loads can do to a brass framed cap & ball revolver.

There have been cases of "chain fireing" where more than one chamber has fired at the same time due to that sort of damage.
It seems that when the guns were fired the cylinder moved back far enough to allow the percussion caps on the other chambers to smash into the recoil shield, causing them to fire.

If light to medium powder charges are used in a brass framed .36 it will not be damaged like this and will work fine for thousands of shots. In a .36, I think charges of 12 to 18 grains should work nicely.

 

[flntlokr]

Thanks, all! It’s either this or the Uberti copy of the Pocket Navy, which has a steel frame. Hard choice...

Brass is pretty, but if you shoot a lot, go for steel.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thank you kindly, pards. They’re a pretty gun. I’ve narrowed it down to either a Grissy or a Pocket Model Navy:

But I hear these pocket models need a lot of finagling to be reliable, but it does have a steel frame. I’m thinking it’d make a delightful and lightweight small game revolver with the 6 1/2” barrel. But not sure st this point if the Griswold would be better. 1st world problems!

 

[Grenadier1758]

My great grand father had a Colt Pocket Navy, so I find that I am partial to the 36 caliber models.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

My great grand father had a Colt Pocket Navy, so I find that I am partial to the 36 caliber models.

I was overcome today, and in a moment of impulse, purchased an Uberti Pocket Navy from DGW. I’ve always considered the extreme beauty and svelteness so charming on that model. It’s like a slimmed down, streamlined ‘51 Navy. Can’t wait to get it!! I might own a Griswold some day too, but the Pocket Navy was just screaming my name!!

 

[snubnose57]

Is there a way to fix a hammered ring? I bought a G and G, for real cheep, with this issue.
Thought I could fix it somehow, but could not come up with any ideas.

 

[ASMman]

Hello snubnose57,

There was a gentleman who did "silver solder" a steel ring in an 1851 Brasser.

After he repaired the frame, he discovered 3 chambers were bored to .372 and the other 3 were bored to .380. He then scrapped the revolver. I think I would have reamed them all the same & put her to the test.

AntiqueSledMan.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Hello snubnose57,

There was a gentleman who did "silver solder" a steel ring in an 1851 Brasser.View attachment 17432
After he repaired the frame, he discovered 3 chambers were bored to .372 and the other 3 were bored to .380. He then scrapped the revolver. I think I would have reamed them all the same & put her to the test.

AntiqueSledMan.

The .380” chambers would’ve been problematic if using commercial balls. You’d need a custom mold for it, probably why he ditched it.

 

[hawkeye2]

Lee makes a 2 and a 6 cavity .380" RB mold. Reaming all the chambers to .380" wouldn't have been difficult after having done all that work.

Snubnose57, there are ways to fix the frame but they aren't easy fixes and realistically probably not worth the time. I would probably just use it for parts.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Lee makes a 2 and a 6 cavity .380" RB mold. Reaming all the chambers to .380" wouldn't have been difficult after having done all that work.

Snubnose57, there are ways to fix the frame but they aren't easy fixes and realistically probably not worth the time. I would probably just use it for parts.

A .380” ball in a .380” chamber wouldn’t shave a complete ring of lead and the balls would easily become dislodged under recoil. Just sounds like a recipe for blowby and many other issues.

 

[hawkeye2]

A .380” ball in a .380” chamber wouldn’t shave a complete ring of lead and the balls would easily become dislodged under recoil. Just sounds like a recipe for blowby and many other issues.

You are correct, guess I wasn't thinking when I posted.

 

[ASMman]

Hey Hawkeye,

I made a swaging die to form a Hollow Base Conical out of a .375 round ball to shoot out of my Brass Framed Spiller & Burr. So making one a little bigger would have been nothing.
Here's a link to my pdf. https://1858remington.com/index.php?topic=9407.0

AntiqueSledMan.