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Griswold and Gunnison repair

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Joined
Jul 8, 2022
Messages
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Location
Washington State
I have a Reproduction Griswold and Gunnison. Based on the plunger being designed for round ball, it’s a Pietta made for Replica Arms of NJ.

The cam on the hammer is worn and it looks like a previous owner spread the bolt legs out so it will still engage the cam. Also the last sear notch on the hammer looks very worn or someone was playing at being a gunsmith.

The result is the bolt engages at the exact same time as the last sear notch is engaged; basically I get two clicks, instead of three.

I took apart my 2022 made Pietta 1851 and swapped out the hammer and the bolt into the Griswold. Everything works fine when I do this. Three nice distinct clicks, timing is good and lock up is good.

So here is the question. Should I buy a blued hammer or case hardened hammer assembly for the Griswold?

The Replica Arms reproduction original hammer is case hardened, but I have a hard time believing the Confederate armories took the time to do this. I’ve looked at pictures of originals, but all of the examples are road hard and out away wet examples. Not many “never issued” examples rolling around in the wild. Every picture I have looked at the metal is in the raw after hard use and age.
 
I removed the bluing and "dulled" the color case on all 5 of my Navy Brassers, and they look awesome.

You can wipe a color case hammer with vinegar and it will take the fake color case hardening off. It is not real color case, it's just for cosmetics.

I would think Pietta just has color cased hammers available for the Colt Navy type repros?

Every single CSA revolver that made it out the door of the factory would have been issued and carried in the field. And many show hard use.

I don't think we'll ever know, the Confederate gun makers did use various types of blue and may very well have case hardened hammers, depending on the gun maker. Most of those guns were well made and fitted with pride in the workmanship , not so much like "last ditch" roughly finished gun seen in other wars.
 
I removed the bluing and "dulled" the color case on all 5 of my Navy Brassers, and they look awesome.

You can wipe a color case hammer with vinegar and it will take the fake color case hardening off. It is not real color case, it's just for cosmetics.

I would think Pietta just has color cased hammers available for the Colt Navy type repros?

Every single CSA revolver that made it out the door of the factory would have been issued and carried in the field. And many show hard use.

I don't think we'll ever know, the Confederate gun makers did use various types of blue and may very well have case hardened hammers, depending on the gun maker. Most of those guns were well made and fitted with pride in the workmanship , not so much like "last ditch" roughly finished gun seen in other wars.
Pietta has both blue and Case hardened.

I’m thinking of going with the case hardened. My Pietta 1851 Navy has a blued hammer and I don’t like it. I’ll swap the blued hammer out and put it on the Griswold. The new case hardened hammer will go on the 1851.
 
I have a Reproduction Griswold and Gunnison. Based on the plunger being designed for round ball, it’s a Pietta made for Replica Arms of NJ.

The cam on the hammer is worn and it looks like a previous owner spread the bolt legs out so it will still engage the cam. Also the last sear notch on the hammer looks very worn or someone was playing at being a gunsmith.

The result is the bolt engages at the exact same time as the last sear notch is engaged; basically I get two clicks, instead of three.

I took apart my 2022 made Pietta 1851 and swapped out the hammer and the bolt into the Griswold. Everything works fine when I do this. Three nice distinct clicks, timing is good and lock up is good.

So here is the question. Should I buy a blued hammer or case hardened hammer assembly for the Griswold?

The Replica Arms reproduction original hammer is case hardened, but I have a hard time believing the Confederate armories took the time to do this. I’ve looked at pictures of originals, but all of the examples are road hard and out away wet examples. Not many “never issued” examples rolling around in the wild. Every picture I have looked at the metal is in the raw after hard use and age.
If you want to strip the faux case color from the hammer or any other part that has the chemical coloring, go to the auto parts store and buy a pump spray bottle of Eagle One Chrome Wheel cleaner. Outdoors, spray the part, scrubbing the hard to reach areas with an old toothbrush. The finish just kind of rolls off, leaving a gun metal gray finish, just flush with water once all the old finish is gone. You can then cold blue or brown. I've used this method to strip the fake finish on several locks, most recent was a Traditions Crockett which I then browned. Be sure to wear rubber gloves and eye protection as the cleaner contains a mild formulation of sulfuric acid.
 
I went to the Pietta website and realized how horribly outdated it is.....with the "1858 Starr - Coming Soon" so any parts coming direct from Pietta are probably from 1983
 
I just bought a Hammer off of eBay. It was in a lot of new take off Pietta parts for sale.

It’s blued. A lot of the newer Piettas are showing up with matte blued hammers and plastic grips. I plan on stripping the hammer to bare metal.

Parts are in short supply. I talked with the Parts guy at Taylors and they are almost out of everything I needed. They have Wedges and Bolts. That was basically it.
 
Everything is swapped out and working like a champ.

Here is what I was dealing with.

Below is a not so great pic of the hammer. The Cam was so worn it wouldn’t even engage with a new bolt. Plus the full cock notch was worn

D2D109D7-FE5E-4221-9619-68EB7D0C079D.jpeg
D07E1147-5370-490A-8E93-F07F8CD83FCA.jpeg
Old bolt on the left with a new bolt for reference. Previous owners had spread the bolt legs so they one would still engage the cam in the hammer. Only problem was the timing was weird. Not to mention, the bolt itself was worn; lock up on full cock sucked.


Next up is swapping out the main spring. The original is stiff. I had to back out the retaining screw to get it were it will cock without serious effort. I have a replacement main spring that needs to trimmed a bit so it will fit.
 
Save the hammer, that cam can be dressed into a perfectly good cam.

Mike
 
Mind explaining how?

The cam on the hammer made almost zero contact with a newly installed bolt. It would seem adding material and then shaping would be the answer.
Well first of all, you have to make the bolt fit the "parameters" you have. You can't move the cam ( or cylinder) near as easy as you can the bolt. So, it sounds like the "bolt stop shelf" ( bolt body extension forward of the bolt head) has too much material and needs to be dressed some (top down not front to back). Doing that will allow more of the bolt head to extend up through the bolt window (hole in the frame) which in turn will allow the bolt arm ( that rides the cam) to move down closer to the cam. ( you may need to "adjust" the height of the bolt head if it is bottoming out in the cyl locking notch).
The most important bolt arm / cam contact is next to the cam/hammer intersect . . . that 90° angle where they meet. The rear most end of the bolt arm should fall off the front of the cam ( as the hammer cycles back) and NOT slide off the side of the cam like some "internet yahoo's" tell ya to do !! That is what's defined as "bolt drop" ( the 2nd of the 3 clicks you here with correct timing).
[ the cam in your picture looks as if the arm was falling off to the side but it's not so far gone as to not be serviceable. I take the height ( thickness) of the cam down to not much more than the thickness of the bolt arm anyway]

Let me know if you get what I'm saying before we go further.
Thanks

Mike
 
Well first of all, you have to make the bolt fit the "parameters" you have. You can't move the cam ( or cylinder) near as easy as you can the bolt. So, it sounds like the "bolt stop shelf" ( bolt body extension forward of the bolt head) has too much material and needs to be dressed some (top down not front to back). Doing that will allow more of the bolt head to extend up through the bolt window (hole in the frame) which in turn will allow the bolt arm ( that rides the cam) to move down closer to the cam. ( you may need to "adjust" the height of the bolt head if it is bottoming out in the cyl locking notch).
The most important bolt arm / cam contact is next to the cam/hammer intersect . . . that 90° angle where they meet. The rear most end of the bolt arm should fall off the front of the cam ( as the hammer cycles back) and NOT slide off the side of the cam like some "internet yahoo's" tell ya to do !! That is what's defined as "bolt drop" ( the 2nd of the 3 clicks you here with correct timing).
[ the cam in your picture looks as if the arm was falling off to the side but it's not so far gone as to not be serviceable. I take the height ( thickness) of the cam down to not much more than the thickness of the bolt arm anyway]

Let me know if you get what I'm saying before we go further.
Thanks

Mike

I appreciate the explanation and what you are explaining, but I’m not interested in salvaging this hammer and bolt combo. The bolt in particular is toast in my opinion. The bolt arms have to be compressed, just to reassemble the revolver. Better to replace the parts with new replacements and move on.
 
Also swapped out the
Main spring for a newer Pietta main spring. The original main spring was very heavy. Not too surprisingly the old spring was much thicker than the new main spring.
 
I appreciate the explanation and what you are explaining, but I’m not interested in salvaging this hammer and bolt combo. The bolt in particular is toast in my opinion. The bolt arms have to be compressed, just to reassemble the revolver. Better to replace the parts with new replacements and move on.


I appreciate your response. It is a rather meticulous operation to describe which is why I stopped and asked . . . but you did ask ! Lol!!

Mike
 
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