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Some people don't care if a gun shoots to the umph degree. They like art. I have built several guns that will never be shot. I have also built guns that have been shot for 55 years or more. The point is this. It's not a matter of one or the other. Nobody goes four wheeling with a Rolles Royce. The guy with the rolles Royce has a 4x4.
For years I have hunted with a Thompson center or a Lyman great plains. Every time I make a decent long rifle it gets sold before I can use it. I'm making one now I swear I will never sell but it won't be very plain.
The question should be this. Do you want a very nice looking rifle that shoots as well as any gun or do you want just a generic rifle? Who can honestly say they don't want something better.
Why do you buy lottery tickets if you don't want something better. Most of the criticism about fine guns and other fine things is a result of the fact that the criticizer can't afford them so it's denial.
Most men want a beauty in the bedroom and a cook in the kitchen so it is with guns. Poor men settle for the cook and the plain gun.
 
Well stated Roundball! I think you have made this statement before that people should get what they want and not worry about what others think or say. As long as you enjoy it who gives a darn!

I'm having TVM build me a Virginia rifle to my specs and Lord knows I'm not worried if someone turns their nose up to her. Life is a short trip, enjoy the ride.

Vietnam71
 
FRS said:
. . . . Let me propose a question to all of you. If you could walk into any gunshow or gunshop in the country and walk out with ANY new rifle there absolutely free, which would you take home. The only stipulation is that you (or your heirs)can never sell or trade the rifle.
Gary

I planned to stay out of this topic until I saw Gary's question. At CLA this past August I saw countless wonderful guns made by many superior builders. Among those gentlemen, about five I consider to be friends. The gun I would choose would be a wonderful work of art that was made by one of my close friends. (Gary would be one, and he knows the other four guys.) There would be no question in my mind about the guns ability to shoot. All build using top quality parts and assemble them with years of building and shooting experience. If these guys build a gun, it's a shooter.

I know that's a sentimental answer. But, if you could own a beautiful gun built by a stranger or a friend, which would you choose?
It makes me think back to th old GI line paraphased here, "This is my rifle. There are NONE like it, but this one is mine. . . ."

Regards,
Pletch
 
"Beauty is skin deep. Ugly goes to the bone

Dont forget the rest of that saying." Beauty fades with time but Ugly holds its own". :rotf:

Wayne/Al
 
But then, isn't a flawed beauty all the more attractive because the scars are shared experiences? I don't think the dings and scratches detract or distract from an old hunting rifle or gun. They showed someone loved and used it.

No offense, but a beautiful rifle or smoothbore with no character marks because it was never used is like a gorgeous nun. Just a bit sad to look upon.
 
jerry huddleston said:
Most of the criticism about fine guns and other fine things is a result of the fact that the criticizer can't afford them so it's denial.
I don't know about the world in general...but the reality on THIS site is NOT people criticizing so called "fine guns"...reality here is just the opposite...there are those who put down anything and everything BUT a so-called fine gun.
 
What you say is true. How sad and boring it would be if they all looked and shot the same. I would never go to another gun show. Beautiful women are hard to live with beautiful guns are hard to hunt with but there is a place for all things. A used car salesman once told me there was a butt for every seat.
 
Last weekend I was deer hunting with a bunch of buddies who are all in the "modern" camp. I had my Chambers Sporting Rifle. Not the most expensive gun I own, IF, you do not include the time I put into making it. It is a nice looking rifle and the balance and handling are up there with anything I own. It was a joy to carry and even tho I put some dings in the stock I doubt that I would have enjoyed the hunt as much if I'd been carrying something with a plastic stock and 4-12x scope on it.

Somethings just cannot be quantified...
 
hhuuummm.........paris hilton or rosie o'donnal~!

well, maybe i should rephrase that....anyhoo, flinters are hobby....so spend time on making them, then time on admireing them.....then get better with each make....enjoy!!!
:hatsoff:
 
Pletch said:
All build using top quality parts and assemble them with years of building and shooting experience. If these guys build a gun, it's a shooter.
Just so we're clear...my reply to ebiggs question was in it's context of "would they shoot better"...not simply whether or not they would be a shooter.

roundball said:
I will say that about 20 years ago I would have assumed by seeing a beautiful long rifle that it would automatically shoot better. But fast forward 17 years and while I've come to like my recent few long rifles over the past 3 years, truth be known they don't shoot a bit better than any/all of the various T/C Hawken calibers with T/C and GM barrels I used all those previous 17 years.

As an example, I now have a beautiful .40cal Late Lancaster with a GM barrel...but it doesn't shoot any better than the .40cal GM drop-in barrel I had in a T/C Hawken with T/C's improved lock and fast vent liner.
Laying the two rifles side by side, the SP++ wood on the Lancaster knocks your socks off compared to my T/C Hawken...but its just looks, doesn't affect its accuracy one way or another.
 
roundball said:
I don't know about the world in general...but the reality on THIS site is NOT people criticizing so called "fine guns"...reality here is just the opposite...there are those who put down anything and everything BUT a so-called fine gun.

Ditto! :shocked2:
 
paulvallandigham said:
It would be nice if Ernie Did shoot a CVA, just to be able to compare that rifle to his beloved T/C collection. :surrender: :thumbsup:

I have no interest in any CVA, nor Traditions for that matter, so I guess I answered my own question. By "looking" I don't expect them to be very good do I don't have interest in one. Perhaps in reality, they can perform just fine. So, yes, looks does influence, at least my judgement. :hmm:
 
I like Jerry H 's comments at the top of this page. I expect that this is a debate without solution. I know that we all have different expectations both in accuracy and what is quality art. Your answer and mine will vary because out expectations are not the same.

Will I shoot a fancy gun better? Maybe I will because it will fit me better. I don"t know, but it will shoot better than I can hold. And, if it does shoot better then I can hold, how can I judge whether it shoots better?

So, I will always enjoy fancier guns than I'm able to own. If I could afford to have Jerry build me a gun, Jerry would already have my money. But as a retired school teacher, I've already been told by another maker, "You can't afford my guns.". He was right, but at least he was a friend, and he was honest.

Regards,
Pletch
 
"will shoot better..."? hard to tell: this might be one of those self- fulfilling prophesy things... i suspect that the angels dancing on the pinhead really consist of a perceived utility argument, at which case i would opine that fancy guns have a greater perceived utility than plain ones.

'cept for eccentrics, such as i, who like plain.

just another free opinion, and no doubt well worth the price!
 
First opinion of a flintlock is from a visual of seeing it. Second is actual use of it. Looks form 1/2 of my opinion on how well it works and shoots.
 
But as a retired school teacher, I've already been told by another maker, "You can't afford my guns.". He was right, but at least he was a friend, and he was honest.

I need to modify your statement somewhat. See below.

But as a retired die maker I've already been told by another person, "You can't afford guns.". She is right, but at least she is a wife, and she is honest. Darn it! :grin: :(
 
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